Talk:Kathucka/Hunter's Guide to Karazhan/Hunter's Guide to Karazhan

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Welcome to the Hunter's Guide to Karazhan. Edit

Please use this page to make suggestions for this guide. Click on the "+" tab above to add a suggestion.

To-Do List Edit

  • Turn task list on main page into links to the other pages.
  • Make the navbox look prettier
  • Figure out the bug with the navbox where it won't always expand when going to the Tables page
  • Add a "ready for the boss" checklist somewhere.
  • Convert the list of macros to a table.
  • Add a macro with Arcane Shot in the cast sequence.
  • Figure out way to add a list of links to categories at the bottom of sub-pages without adding those pages to the categories. Might not be possible to do cleanly.
  • Add links to list of hunter gear
  • Put gear page into the gear guide category
  • Add a dash/growl macro
  • Add a Focus / Misdirection macro
  • Add a Focus / Distracting Shot macro
  • Add discussion of cost of raiding consumables

Change Log Edit

  • (06-Mar-08) Re-organized talent spec page. No, this guide won't include other specs in detail. If you want that, write your own guide and this guide can link to it.
  • (05-Mar-08) Added section and table for reputation reward rings and ammunition
  • (05-Mar-08) Added separate page dedicated to shot rotation, clipping, macros, and Dr. Boom.
  • (03-Mar-08) Added Deterrence and Bestial Wrath to skills table
  • (03-Mar-08) Put note on all the discussion sub-pages directing all discussion to this page.
  • (29-Feb-08) Added mention of Cheeky's spreadsheet, along with discussion of how to compare items
  • (29-Feb-08) Added Knothide Ammo Pouch and Knothide Quiver
  • (28-Feb-08) Added more random drops and PvP gear to the gear list
  • (28-Feb-08) Added discussion of order in which to gear up (crafted, auction house, quest, drop/PvP)
  • (27-Feb-08) Added tips to The Curator
  • (27-Feb-08) Added Concussive Shot, Snake Trap, Freezing Trap, Frost Trap, Scatter Shot, Silencing Shot, Volley, and Explosive Trap to the table
  • (27-Feb-08) Announced the guide on some forums
  • (27-Feb-08) Put the main article in the Guide category, effectively publishing it

-- Kathucka 20:42, 6 March 2008 (UTC)

Suggestions Edit

Gear Recommendations:

Veteran's Musket, from Honor Hold (Exalted)

Mark of Conquest (quest, I believe) This is a PvP reward that costs 30 Marks of Honor Hold, acquired from killing players while defending towers in Hellfire Peninsula as well as completing the daily PvP quest in Honor Hold. There's an equivalent for Horde players as well. Jyslin 15:09, 4 March 2008 (UTC)

Raid Preparation:

A comment on the cost of raiding might help. Many new raiders don't realize they may use 20 gold in ammo and pet food alone. Add in flasks/elixirs/buff food/repair and 50+ gold per raid is not uncommon.

To potions:

Unstable Mana potions: Available from a Skettis daily quest. Not as good, but considerably cheaper.

Auchenai Mana potions: Available from the Spirit Shard vendor in Allerian Stronghold, for Spirit Shards from the Auchenai instances.

The Bosses:

Boss notes:

Attumen trash: I Freeze Trap the Chargers, because they can fear.

Attumen: As I wear mail armor, I intentionally have everyone at range be *between* me and Attumen so that *I* am the one who soaks up his charges. The #2 or #3 healer heals me after each one.

Maiden: I believe pats are a target for the Chain damage Maiden has; we keep pets out of melee, positioned at the perimeter of the room, so they still soak up Holy Fire and Holy Wrath, but do not chain the Wrath to other melee near Maiden.

Curator: We spread, at range, in a semi-circle, to mitigate the arcane chain damage of the flares.

Aran: You will not move when Flame Wreath is cast, or the raid blows up. You should repeat this. Over. And over.

Oilcan 01:27, 1 March 2008 (UTC)

Cost of raiding is a good point. It's a shock to new raiders, who are the ones most in need of Flasks. I'll put it on the to-do list.
More emphasis on not moving during Flame Wreath is another great idea.
Pets do not chain Holy Wrath, and do not get tagged with Holy Fire. They take damage from Holy Ground, and that's it. Get your pet in there! Maiden is really all about the healers not screwing up, but if you can crank up your DPS so high that she drops in less than two minutes, the healers have fewer chances to screw up.
As of a recent patch, hunters have a minimum range on shots shorter than the minimum range on Attumen's Berserker Charge. Nobody needs to get hit with it any more. Just move to six yards, and nobody gets Charged. I think Blizzard should have reduced the minimum range on Berserker Charge, but they didn't.
A big circle around Curator does reduce the immediate DPS of the Flares, but it also means that the Flares live longer if you have any melee. Your pet is melee. For new raids, the first problem is always killing the Flares fast enough, so bunching up is better. The Arcing Sear only jumps two times (for three hits), so it doesn't actually do much more damage when you bunch up. If melee chases after the Flare, it will hit three targets anyway.
On the other hand, if you have enough DPS, any strategy works on Curator, so it's not worth getting religious over.
Kathucka 17:45, 3 March 2008 (UTC)

We're getting Maiden down in 90 secs or so, but I'll try sending the pet in this week. I've seen him take damage before; must have been from seomeone else's chain, out of position.

I'll try 6 yards range (for whole raid) on Attumen. We should be able to /spit him down.

We've not had a dps problem on Curator, only wiped twice first starting on him, but I'll mention bunching up for our newer/lesser geared raids.

--Oilcan 13:17, 4 March 2008 (UTC)

Apologies: The pet also takes damage from Repentance. Kathucka 23:04, 4 March 2008 (UTC)

Shot Rotation Explanation link Edit

In my guild's Hunter Class forums, I point hunters towards the following link when they ask about Shot Rotations and clipping:

Originally written by:

Crabby. Tauren Hunter – Stormreaver. Murderer Inc. References:The information for this guide comes primarily from the theory crafting threads on the Elitist Jerks forums:

Acknowledgements: I’d like to acknowledge and thank in particular the following EJ posters for information used in this guide: Lactose: A hunter theory crafter par excellence i’ve read since starting the game! Cheeky: Creator of the excellent hunter DPS spreadsheet, a must for all serious raiding hunters. ( Lythrdskynrd: From whom I ‘borrowed’ the idea of visual shot rotation diagrams.

--Oilcan 13:17, 4 March 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for the link. I think I'm probably going to wimp out on my explanation of shot rotations with something really short, then point to links like this. Also, please sign your comments.
Kathucka 17:48, 3 March 2008 (UTC)
oops. I'm new at this, sorry.
--Oilcan 13:17, 4 March 2008 (UTC)

Pets on Curator Edit

I really have to disagree with your suggestion for the curator fight, especially where pets are concerned.

The pet should be on Curator all the time. Don't use it for chasing Flares, it's pointless.

I also don't think having everybody bunch up is the greatest of ideas. If your raid is really melee heavy this might improve things because they won't have to run after flares. In all other cases it's a better idea to stay spread out and never chase after flares. Stand in a fixed position and target/nuke every flare that passes. If it gets out of range, target the next one. Do not run away from them. Do not chase them. If every ranged DPS does that and everybody stays away from each other the raid takes a lot less damage from Flares and no caster will suffer from unnecessary pushback.

Especially as a hunter the temptation to run away from Flares that aggro you is very very hard to resist. Still it is very important not to try to kite them. Melee them and let another ranged DPS who will not have aggro help you kill it. Then proceed to the next Flare.

You should also point out that everybody should drop what they are doing and NUKE NUKE NUKE during the Evocation. This includes popping every CD and trinket available. If there's still a Flare around, it should be ignored for the few invaluable seconds that the Evocation lasts. If you're a BM hunter and your pet is not on Curator and under BW you fail ;-).

--Jyslin 15:27, 4 March 2008 (UTC)

Your strategies work for well-geared raids, but are disasters for raids that are new to Curator. Before you try to post any such strategy, consider carefully that a new raid has just barely enough DPS to knock down each Flare before the next one spawns. If you do that, you'll see that taking the pet off of the Flare, or leaving a Flare up during Evocation, will quickly result in multiple Flares. The raid will never catch up (remember, they have barely enough DPS to handle one Flare at a time), and will wipe.
Also, there are two very big points to having the pet on the Flares. First, with Avoidance and Arcane Resistance, the pet will soak up and negate a very large chunk of damage output from the Flares. Mend Pet is more than enough to keep the pet up. The player characters don't get hit as much, and things are much easier on the healers. Second, with Dash and Growl, the pet can get aggro every time, pin the Flare in place, and make it much easier to kill. With the Flares dead faster, things again get a lot easier on the healers.
Hunter pets are hugely useful in this fight on the Flares. Leave them on The Curator only if you are in a raid with enough DPS to blow through easily anyway. In that case, leaving the pet on The Curator will let you finish the fight a little faster.
Obviously, having melee ignore Flares that get out of range is an even bigger disaster in an undergeared raid, but will likewise help an overgeared raid get through the fight faster.
For a well-geared raid that can output lots of damage, any strategy will work. I'm not writing for that raid, though. I'm writing for marginal raids that need help.
For a new raid, the strategy I posted is best. It maximizes DPS on the Flares, which is the most important thing for a marginal raid.
The main article on The Curator covers the importance of popping cooldowns. In the interest of length, I avoid duplicating the main article strategies too much. People should follow the links. Since you didn't notice that, perhaps I do need to emphasize that people need to follow the links.
Kathucka 19:11, 4 March 2008 (UTC)

Nightbane Edit

You're mentioning Avoidance and armor for the pet on Nightbane. In fact what you want on the pet is Avoidance and maximum FIRE resistance. The Charred Earth does fire damage, not physical damage. With maximum Fire resist and constantly ticking Mend Pet your Pet will survive Charred Earth, there no need to pull it out then. You will have to consider if your Mana pool is large enough to have Mend Pet up all the time, however. Nightbane is one of the fights where one easily hits the 2 minute wall of the potion cooldown.

Armor is generally quite useless in raids, including Karazhan, with the possible exception of Gruul's Lair.

You should also point out that the entire raid MUST collapse on the main tank after Nightbane takes off, until the Skeletons have finished spawning.

I don't think shooting Nightbane while he's flying is a good idea. You will take damage from the Skeleton AoE at first and taking additional nukeage from Nightbane's return fire ability is nothing the healer will love you for. You might even die.

--Jyslin 15:40, 4 March 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for the Charred Earth tip. I double-checked it. It turns out that Charred Earth is weird. It's a physical effect, but does fire damage. I'll fix that.
Armor on the pet is still useful on Nightbane. Frequently, the tank will lose control of one of the skeletons, and it will go after a healer. If that healer goes down, that's a wipe, so you're going to try to pet-tank the skeleton with Intimidation and Growl. If the pet has armor and maybe an outside heal or two, it will survive. No armor means the pet dies quickly, and then you have to pick up the skeleton yourself, kite it and revive your pet.
Shooting Nightbane in the air has its upsides and downsides. It means that you are going to get tagged with Smoking Blast, which is a combination of physical and fire damage. If you don't do it, a healer is going to get Smoking Blast instead, and that's nasty. Your mail armor will help you survive the physical damage better than the healer. On the other hand, your DPS is really needed to get the skeletons down quickly, and shooting Nightbane is a distraction from that. So, I don't know if it's really a good idea or not. It's possible that it will be useful to some raids, though, so I mention it.
As for collapsing at the start of the air phase: Yes, you have to do that. It's not a hunter-specific tip, though, so I leave it out and let people read about it in the linked main Nightbane page.
Pet armor is useful on some trash (which Karazhan has far too much of), Attumen, Moroes, Illhoof, Wizard of Oz, Romulo, and Nightbane. It's also very good for solo play. If you're raiding, you're probably going to have to grind or quest to get gold, and so armor is worth having there. It is completely useless on Maiden of Virtue, Curator, single-mob-pull trash, double-mob-pull trash, magic damage trash, Netherspite, Chess, and Prince Malchezaar. So, whether to take armor or not is a judgement call, and depends on where you are in the instance.
Kathucka 20:09, 4 March 2008 (UTC)

Oh, dear. I checked a WWS log for Nightbane, and Charred Earth absolutely does physical damage, and it is absolutely mitigated by armor. The text on the in-game debuff icon is just plain wrong. I guess I'd better change it back.

Kathucka 21:42, 4 March 2008 (UTC)

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