Mentioned this on the subspecie page, and it only really effects the arakkoa on this page, but I don't think having strong ties to outland should be a mark against a race. On the contrary, races with strong ties to outland would be a good way to keep the shattered world involved in the story instead of running off to northrend and forgetting it. Their starting areas are easily taken care of: Portal worlds and floating islands.Tweak the Whacked 07:23, 22 December 2007 (UTC)

Again I agree, it seems reasonable.Baggins 00:42, 23 December 2007 (UTC)

Colour Edit

I think someone forgot to put </font>, or whatever the command is, as the bottom part of the main article has all text in red. Cierran 00:38, 23 December 2007 (UTC)

It should be fixed now.Baggins 00:43, 23 December 2007 (UTC)

Pandarens section regarding trolls Edit

OBJECTION! (I recently got the WoW RPG book, the very first one, and looked up jungle trolls, remembering an excerpt from a section within in a different source)

{hand slam desk}

Edgeworth : According to the RPG book, the very first one, it doth mention that Darkspear trolls, the playable jungle trolls, "deny this legacy" when referring to jungle troll legacy of being evil punks (p. 49 in the book). Furthermore, only two tribes of trolls are in the Horde: Revantusk (forest trolls, they have nothing to do with jungle troll legacy), and Darkspear (the playable trolls). It also says, "The Horde has taught them camaraderie, restraint, and, to a lesser extent, kindness" (a little lower on the page). Furthermore, I highly doubt the red thing on trolls even remotely specifies what tribe of trolls is evil, looking back on older edits to find no real specification. TAKE THAT! Garm 16:00, 9 January 2008 (EST)

The point is that Pandarens don't make any distinction between jungle trolls and see them all the same (if they had made a disctinctoin the book would have said otherwise). They see jungle trolls as jungle trolls as stated in the pandaren article. Any speculation that pandarens see jungle trolls as anything other than the book says, is not allowed (we have stated this previously speculation is not allowed in the articles). Any updated info will have to wait until we have updated information in Dark Factions if it is ever released. In case the book (and the World of Warcraft The Roleplaying Game book) are mainly about Horde jungle trolls, thus why the books specifically state, "Jungle Trolls...Affiliation: Horde."[1] (A&HC 23)[2] (WoWRPG 50), yes to adequetly describe darkspear jungle trolls one has to compare them to the rest of their race. But the main point is it lists Jungle Trolls as affiliated with the horde in the affiliation section.Baggins 16:17, 9 January 2008 (EST)
In anycase I've made it more specific, in that its pandaren's view of the entire race, that references to jungle trolls in the book are specifically related to "horde faction" (with contrasts to their kindred), and that pandarens make absolutely no distinctions between the race as a whole in their article, universally seeing the race as the same. No speculation is allowed beyond those given facts. If it is to be updated, that will take any official information established in any future sources. The same policy kept for anything on this page, or its spinnoff pages.
In anycase, the point is if pandarens are currently xenophobic to jungle trolls in general they aren't likely going to want to join them, as long as they have that xenophobia its going to be listed as a redmark. If they change their opinion of the race and specifically the darkspear according to a future source, that will be taken into account right away.Baggins 16:49, 9 January 2008 (EST)
When I spot a contradiction, I will summon Miles Edgeworth to deal with it. Thanks for editing the contradiction, though. Now to go find more to deal with. Garm 18:04, 9 January 2008 (EST)
Wasn't really a contradiction, just wasn't completely detailed. ...and everyone knows Phoenix is superior to Miles Edworth, considering how many times he made Miles lose his cases.Baggins 08:20, 10 January 2008 (UTC)
Some Dark Factions updates the book maintains that they are neutral to both Horde and Alliance. mainly only covers the Pandaren's love of dwwarves, and how most are found in Alliance lands. It updates that Pandaren have been traveling to the Eastern Kingdoms and Khaz Modan to visit them now. They are still not likely to join the Alliance because of politics are a noisome formality they must endure while they learn about the races that inhabit the land. The book goes very little into their relationship with the horde. Only mentioning that a few have chosen to aid both sides in matters of importance but remain neutral. It goes onto state that their beliefs are similar to night elves, tauren, troll and orc races. However they have a different style of belief system. However this faith section is not used to discuss affiliation or who they would feel most comfortable with, or their opinions of other faiths. In the end the book leaves the Pandaren Neutral, but slightly favoring the Alliance.Baggins (talk) 02:14, 19 May 2008 (UTC)

Goblins as a neutral race? Edit

Hi, I'm a long time reader and first time poster of Wowwiki. I'll try to get it right though!

Goblins are surely one of the most suitable races for addition to World of Warcraft, as they have almost all of the qualities needed, and some that existing races do not. They even have a near-complete model (although it's based off the Dwarf frame, you would only notice it if you were looking for it). The only problem is their neutrality. They are a neutral race, and the entire population shifting to support the Horde or Alliance wouldn't make much sense, lore or mechanicwise. However, I believe that I found a way in that Goblins can remain the neutral shopkeeps of Warcraft, while being able to be playable as a normal character!

I have presented these ideas in the World of Warcraft community Suggestion Forum, and the forumgoers have been unusually positive and helpful about it. They have been directly responsible for solving some of the most obscure or obvious problems imaginable that I either forgot about or ignored. The thread can be found here [1].

Here is the core of the idea for those smart enough to avoid the forums:

A self-made map of Kezan, closely based off the Blizzard concept sketch attached ~[2]. I'm sure that if I had actually been able to read the notation, there would be different zones and landmarks, but I tried to be as close as I could by checking other sources.

Neutrality Solution Goblins start off neutral to everyone, as do the NPCs on Kezan. However, after completing a quest chain that will take them to roughly level 20, they will meet diplomats from the Horde and Alliance. They have been dispatched by their superiors to hire Goblin mercenaries. Upon choosing the preferred side via a quest (with a large 'Are you sure?' box coming up), they learn Common/Orcish, they become unable to understand Goblins who are of the opposing faction, and the opposing faction forever becomes Hostile. If the Goblin chooses not to align, then they will be prevented from leaving the island by a quest-dependent trigger that teleports them back to port if they try to leave. They will also not learn Orcish/Common.

The ultimate result is that Goblins would be able to all start together and level up as goblins, but still able to become completely normal Horde or Alliance characters. Additionally, since that particular character (and only that character) joins a side, the rest of the population whether NPC or PC, stays neutral. Even better, it is emphasised that it is as a mercenary, not a sympathiser or part of a grand movement of pro-Horde or pro-Alliance goblins. It is a purely personal, practical, money-based choice by the little level 20 goblin. And that happens to be precisely what a Goblin would do.

Factions: The Players and the towns around the island will be of the Undermine faction. This includes most of the NPCs actually inside the Undermine. The Auction Houses at Bilgewater and Edj will be linked to the Steamwheedle ones, but also be of Undermine. Inside of the city, there are two major factions for max level reputation grinding (assuming that this is included in something like the Maelstrom expansion). The Sprocketgear Syndicate and the Coppercraft Family are two of the more aggressive and flexible cartels, who are in direct competition for the land and resources not taken by the larger, more powerful Steamwheedle and Venture companies. Although the Sprocketgears and Coppercrafts are too small to challenge the other cartels, they are more than happy to try and wipe each other out. Thus, they will try and hire as many operatives as possible to try and get the advantage. This is similar to the Aldor vs Scryers. The more conservative Bilgewater Cartel will fill the rest in a manner similar to the Lower City. The Steamwheedle and Venture will be far too concerned with matters abroad to bother with the Undermine infighting.

Language: Each goblin would start with Goblin as their language. Upon siding with a faction, they learn Orcish/Common. As well as learning the new language, they lose the ability to understand and be understood by enemy goblins through a spell cast by the diplomat you choose in Edj. It's for security, after all.

Classes: Goblins are capable of most basic classes. Warriors and Rogues come easily, and Mages and Warlocks are simply magical means to an end. Notice that this is exactly what Gnomes have, who are a similarly driven and technical race. The below threads conveniently show a way that Gnomes and Goblins could both be given a healing-capable class, which could also be bundled in the same expansion. Here[3].

Racials: +10 Fire Resistance. +15 Engineering Specialization. Science: Increases your chance to resist poison and disease effects by 10%. Mercenary (Activated): Makes you immune to Stunning and Incapacitating effects for 4 seconds.

Mount: Basilisk (blinded and tamed, of course), with armour and baggage. Flight Points would be a combination of Gryphon and Wyvern, with them being randomly picked if the Goblin has not aligned yet.

Capital: The Undermine, the greatest city in the world. A vast underground city, with all the trade you could want. Since it is both a racial capital and the neutral capital of the Great Sea, it would be an unholy combination between Shattrath City and the Steamwheedle towns. It would normally contain the giant Undermine Auction House, but a recent covert attack by the Bloodsail Buccaneers has reduced it to rubble. The Bank is still operational however, as well as a Portal trainer. Thars money to be made, after all. Neutral AH's linked to the Steamwheedle network would be found at Bilgewater and Edj. The plaza around the destroyed Auction House would be full of crying Goblins. :(

PvP would be enabled within the Undermine, but Bruisers would be plentiful. A large arena would be somewhere, for both random FFA (without Bruiser reprisal) and regular Arena matches.

Leaders: The various Trade Princes to be found inside Undermine. Steamwheedle, Venture and Bilgewater all have Moguls, as well as the other companies.

Character Progression

Union Training Site: The starting zone. You start as a Goblin who just signed up for work. Your immediate jobs are gathering materials, salvaging from the nearby wrecks, and clearing the gold mine (why does every starting area have a mine or cave?).

Bilgewater Port: After discovering a Bloodsail presence on the shore, you get sent up the road to the busy Bilgewater Port, which is on an island at the mouth of the river. From there you go to roughly 10. You fight murlocs on the beaches and reefs and gather tourist items from wildlife. You also discover a large Bloodsail camp nearby.

Bilgewater Port also contains multiple ships and Zeppelins that leave for cities around the world, as well as a neutral auction house and flight point.

Observation Point: An observatory on a nearby island needs help. You run along the road, past the Undermine cavern entrance and through the volcanic mountains in the southern end of the island. At the Point, you find that it is under attack from the sea by Naga, while native Jungle Trolls from Voodress Village have taken advantage of the situation and taken over the road and bridges, cutting off communications and supplies. You fight your way to the inner sactum of the Trolls inside the Kajaro volcano, and thwart their plan to summon great fire spirits to destroy the Goblins.

Lashed Point: This is access by a pre-learned free flightpoint from Observation Point, which sends you over the sea to a small Bruiser camp. You work your way to stopping the Naga and Murloc invasion of the island before they do too much damage.

Edj: You are called to this normally sleepy port town because of your previous adventures at Bilgewater. The Bloodsails have landed a sizable force upriver, taken over an old mining complex for a fort, and are getting ready to secure the penninsula for the landing of a full invasion fleet. You get sent upriver, and take out their leadership and boats. With Kezan saved, you are given a small bonus for your wages.

Additionally, the representatives for the Horde and Alliance are waiting in town upon completion of the quest series, looking for potential mercenaries. Upon choosing one, it allows travel off the island and the other becomes Hostile. If you do not choose a side, then both sides will remain at Neutral, and you are kept on the island. This area would be very heavy on Bruisers, to prevent mean players from taking advantage of recently-sided Goblins on PvP servers. Also, on PvP servers only the acceptable faction's quest would be available.

Edj also contains a boat that travels to Booty Bay, as well as a neutral auction house and island flightpoint.

That is essentially it. It's a bit long, but that's the only way to put in all the detail. In any case, thanks in advance for your comments, and I hope we can have a lot of fun with this! --Fragglepop 08:04, 10 January 2008 (UTC)

I like the idea! And your map is cool--IconSmall FireFireMasterIconSmall Pandaren(IconSmall BloodElf2 MaleT-CIconSmall PitLord) 12:37, 5 February 2008 (UTC)

Theoretically, this system of choosing could also work for Pandaren, allowing them to choose a side without having to muddle through the whole 'favours both sides equally' issue. --Fragglepop 03:38, 10 February 2008 (UTC)

Oooh!Im tired of pandas!(If pandas go,furbolgs and Gnolls go neutral too)I like your idea alot,i have an idea just like it only if you are neutral you can know both common and orcish,or none of them,but they cant do battle grounds,and can only have one faction in a paty(for example,If they have humans in their party,they can have any Horde or vice verca) Airiph/T/C/B 15:12, 10 February 2008 (UTC)
No doubt the best idea for goblin thus far. Neutrality has been thrown around on the official forums but not at this extent. My suggestion, iron out the levels for each place. Also would you be able to travel to Undermine pre-20? Though I can see how that could end up with some mages porting young goblins...... anyway. Great idea, it would be amazing if it could be implemented. If you can, make a new page for this idea and link it to the goblin ideas. --Rannulf 16:11, 10 May 2008 (UTC)
Very nice idea... but... don't you think that, if everything was done as you say, almost ALL new players would choose the goblin race? -- Bajo (talk) 17:06, 20 June 2008 (UTC)
What I would do is allow them to travel off Kezan before choosing their faction, but making them unfriendly with everyone instead. So they can explore without getting attacked but can't communicate with either faction. As with your idea, they don't learn the language until they pick a side so they can't speak with non-goblin players either. Jormungand01 (talk) 18:39, 26 September 2008 (UTC)
This is the one part of this suggestion that I didn't like "If the Goblin chooses not to align, then they will be prevented from leaving the island by a quest-dependent trigger that teleports them back to port if they try to leave. They will also not learn Orcish/Common." I don't see why they can't remain neutral or rep with both Horde and Alliance factions if the player chooses. IMHO WoW is missing the option to take a diplomatic stance rather than being hostile or indifferent. There are Steamwheedle Cartel quests already in the game from lein the twenties to the forties, so it would just require adding a starter area and some extra quests to fill them out. Goblins should be able to gain rep with Horde and Alliance with a penalty to the other, which would be worked out so in such a way that it is difficult, but not impossible, to reach a high level of reputation with both. You would be able to trade with players of any faction with which you are neutral or better (as is the natyre of goblins), and at a certain reputation level you would learn their language and become able to group with them. The variety of goblin quests and achievements that could be added using this mechanic could really open up the gameplay! (example: Explore Azuremyst Isle and complete five trades with Draenei players)--Zyrcona (talk) 10:36, 19 December 2008 (UTC)
The only problem with that is that it would allow Horde and Alliance to communicate and exchange items, albeit indirectly. Blizzard doesn't want them to be able to do that, but introducing a playable race who is neutral and can trade with both would make this obsolete. The Horde and Alliance players would just use a goblin as a middleman. Jormungand IconSmall Rogue talk · contribs

Great idea, I have wanted goblins to be playable for a long time, but I have to agree with the post above me, players would just trade with friends, and they can also send mail to the goblin player, and then have that character send the mail to the opposite fraction.

Problem with this is that they are eliminating Bloodsail members which isn't fair if one wanted to gain reputation with the Bloodsail. Jamburger

Humanoid Satyr Edit

"Unlike most satyr, Zenn is considered humanoid for some unknown reason." This mean there can have others Satyr of humanoid type?--IconSmall FireFireMasterIconSmall Pandaren(IconSmall BloodElf2 MaleT-CIconSmall PitLord) 12:50, 5 February 2008 (UTC)

He's humanoid cause bliz didn't know how to create quest givers that were flagged as something other than humanoids back in the day. User:Coobra/Sig3 20:47, 5 February 2008 (UTC)
They were also originally humanoids in the RPG, if that means anything...Baggins 03:19, 15 February 2008 (UTC)

Ogres as a new race Edit

Ogres should totally be made into a new race...they are too involved in warcraft to be ignored...besides, the biggest, strongest humanoid you've seen and it can use magic???think of the havoc these guys could create in AV... Baldr 00:29, 7 February 2008 (UTC)

They are already on the list =P.Plus a bunch of races has been ignored thats been involves in WoW. Airiph/T/C/B 02:05, 7 February 2008 (UTC)

Some races that has been "ignored": Ogres, Goblins, High Elves, Satyr, Naga and others.--IconSmall FireFireMasterIconSmall Pandaren(IconSmall BloodElf2 MaleT-CIconSmall PitLord) 03:46, 7 February 2008 (UTC)

The last thing we need is high elves as a playable race. We already have the night elves and blood elves.-VariDaDreadlord 19:51, 5 April 2008 (UTC)

Lets not get into that discussion again!--Blayaden 20:34, 5 April 2008 (UTC)

Just a minor thing. In the book Rise of the Horde, an Ogre speaks in his native language (Though its name is not included). Shouldn't this info be added to the article? Also, the point made earlier that Ogres couldn't join a faction because they are hunted by both factions is slightly off. Trolls have seperate tribes, two that joined the horde. Ogres could do the same, but not all of them.--Strof 19:12, 4 July 2008 (UTC)

Only the Darkspear tribe joined the horde, the Revantusk tribe just has a pact of friendship. User:Coobra/Sig3 23:35, 4 July 2008 (UTC)

Course they have a 'native language' as of yet its only called Low Common. No other name for their language has been confirmed.Baggins (talk) 23:52, 4 July 2008 (UTC)


I think that they should, make a new faction Scourge. there would of course be the normal undead, nerubians (which i consider humanoids) and maybe abomination. i will think more on this.—The preceding unsigned comment was added by Shagran (talkcontr).

No. Just no. That simply wouldn't work. Abou 99.9% of the Scourge have no free will at all, and the other 0.1% are really only the death knights, liches and necromancers, who while they still can strategize and more, are ultimately only obeying the Lich King. For roleplaying reasons, that would not be very good, for the control of one's character's actions is very important to get a good RP story. --Kulsprutejojjo 13:15, 9 February 2008 (UTC)

Addition to Gnoll sectionEdit

I was just wondering if I could include a new white point to the gnolls:

?There are multiple Gnoll factions or tribes, such as the Palemane and Riverpaw gnolls. Perhaps one of these factions could join the Horde or Alliance, while the rest keep their mercenary status.

Another option for the Gnolls is using the idea mentioned about goblins as a neutral race, which would e fitting considering they are mercenaries. The only problem, then, would be a racial capital (an island, perhaps?).Bill 19:42, 10 March 2008 (UTC)

Multiple factions is not a good point unless the tribes are very different.--SWM2448 20:15, 10 March 2008 (UTC)
Wait, wait, wait. Don't both the Horde AND the Alliance have quests that involve killing/etc. gnolls? How would that work out...different tribe allegiance? And that would just get way too confusing. TessyWawa


I would like to see a type of system in which you become a Neutral race such as Naga or Goblin and can choose to join the alliance or horde. As a further note, these are, in my opinion, the best choices for new races:

Naga- two starting zones (Gilneas and Kul Tiras.) The lore could be of a faction of Naga disagreeing with Azshara/Old Gods and being exiled and cursed (or decursed) into walking creatures maybe like nightelf/naga hybrids. Anyway, they could join the horde or alliance and missions involve fighting enemy naga, humans (Gilnean humans if their to join the alliance), sea creatures and plenty of other stuff. Either faction they join, maybe Kul Tiras could become a reputation faction because it hasn't been heard of so far. A starting zone raid or dungeon could involve killing Genn Greymane or one of his heirs. As for a capital city, that would be hard but it could be an old human city or just make up a new one.

Furbolg- starting zone in Mount Hyjal, which is big enough to have two zones or one big enogh to go to level 20. The capital city could be a secret or underground city never before seen. I don't see the furbolg being a horde factoin but they would fit along well with the alliance.

Pandaren- starting zones could be newly made islands like the draenei with capital city as Pandaria.-VariDaDreadlord 20:10, 5 April 2008 (UTC)

Vrykul Edit

Could someone add section and gather pros and contras for the Vrykul? --Shargas the Naga (talk) 18:49, 10 May 2008 (UTC)

I would think we still know too little about them.--SWM2448 18:52, 10 May 2008 (UTC)

But we still have few arguments, like, contras:

  • unlikely to appear without Northrend which have been already featured in an expansion
  • their racial leader is already featured as a raid boss (though nothing can stop a faction to break out of them)

And pros:

  • possess unique architecture style
  • possess own language


  • not known connection to the Titan creation yet

Just I don't want to get into the whole formatting thing.

We'll probably add them at a later date, when we've got more info to work with. I don't think it is at all necessary to add them now. ---- Battlegroup RoundIconVorbis AvailablequesticonTalk ActivequesticonContribs 16:01, 11 May 2008 (UTC)
Two issues I can think of... Aren't they gigantic? Also they look a bit too human-like...Baggins (talk) 17:21, 11 May 2008 (UTC)
But that doesn't make them unworthy section on the main paige, only adding two more contras. --Shargas the Naga (talk) 17:27, 12 May 2008 (UTC)
Point of note, Magnataur were removed from the page previously for being giants... Although there was also the issue that they had four legs, and that they don't speak anything but low common... At least for ogres not all of them are giants thus their existance on the page. Although, Blizzard has said in the past the fact that they are giants & can't fit into doors was an issue for playability at least in WoW sizes for the race...Baggins (talk) 18:12, 15 May 2008 (UTC)

Ok, I added a vrykul section. Feel free to edit it as you see fit, seeing as how I'm a rookie, and it's amazing how I managed to do that...Toran Wildpaw of the Frenzyheart (talk) 19:03, 19 September 2008 (UTC)

Wolvar and gorloc Edit

I believe that we now know enough from the Beta to add them to the page. Does anyone agree? ---- Battlegroup RoundIconVorbis AvailablequesticonTalk ActivequesticonContribs 12:06, 3 September 2008 (UTC)
I agree.--SWM2448 21:57, 4 September 2008 (UTC)
As vrykul were removed shortly after addition, I think it would be a wise idea to look for a bit more support before I add these two races. Any objections to my adding them? ---- Battlegroup RoundIconVorbis AvailablequesticonTalk ActivequesticonContribs 17:23, 26 September 2008 (UTC)
I think we now know enough to add atleast wolvar to the list, if not gorloc's. --1201 (talk) 09:46, 20 June 2009 (UTC)

Treants? Edit

It sounds ridiculous, I know, but is it possible that Treants could be a future race? I know they are classified as Elementals, but there's always the Forsaken rule. Bill (talk) 16:51, 11 May 2008 (UTC)

Unfortunately, I don't think that there are any females - or even that they are entirely sapient. Even then, their design doesn't make armor or helmets easy to wear. Therefore, I think it's best we leave them off the list. ---- Battlegroup RoundIconVorbis AvailablequesticonTalk ActivequesticonContribs 16:53, 11 May 2008 (UTC)
They seem to be sapient, they are just mute...and they are plants rather than elementals technically... Just MMO doesn't have categories for plants. Also another issue besides the ones mentioned above, they are used by druids already, so it wouldn't be unique.Baggins (talk) 17:24, 11 May 2008 (UTC)
That said, so are felguard. I'm sure replacing either spell with another creature type wouldn't be a problem, but otherwise they're still unlikely for all the reasons described. ^^ ---- Battlegroup RoundIconVorbis AvailablequesticonTalk ActivequesticonContribs 17:28, 11 May 2008 (UTC)

Four legs - really a trouble? Edit

I don't think it's really a trouble. Animations - even when the new race is two-legged, it needs new animations as completely new model. Clothing? How clothing (the same) fits both Gnome and Tauren? Perhaps the same way would it fit four-legged creatures. Any more troubles you see? --IconSmall Naga MaleShargas the Naga (blearrgglaerrgall) 17:42, 15 May 2008 (UTC)

I have to agree, the same way it goes with the arms of the Nagas, if you use a shirt it just covers all four arms,--Gurluas (talk) 17:44, 15 May 2008 (UTC)

There is a huge stretch between going from two legged creatures to four. Tauren still have two legs. The only difference is the feet (which blizzard has chosen to pretty much ignore when it comes to texturing shoes, they don't wear shoes per se). So far there is no no way to do it for four legged animals, good or otherwise. There is no way of stretching two legged "pants" textures onto four legs, and a huge midsection of the body (the horse back). Also it probably wouldn't look that good. Horses don't look good in pants. Skirts maybe. But armor design textures designed to be seen as pants would't look good forced into the shape of a skirt. Also textures stretched onto naga tails and or arms don't look very good because the textures were designed to be only on two arms or two legs, so things look really stretched in some places, and compressed in others, or patchy. It would take alot of work to design specific "pants" armor textures to be used for four legged creatures. Specific unique textures would be required to be used only by four legged creatures would be in order to make it look good. Unique textures would be needed to make single legged naga armor look good, or make four arms look good. Unique textures would be needed for six legged nerubians, etc. Because textures designed specifically for two legs and two arms do not look good when stretched onto anything beyond that.
So that begs the question, would Blizzard be willing to design a full wardrobe of unique multi-limbed textures to be used specifically for creatures with four legs. ...and unique single-limbed textures for naga for their uh tail? I'm thinking probably not. It wouldn't be very cost effective I think. It would end up making them have to do twice/three times the work they do now, in order to design two/three seperate textures based on the same art design for each and every armor (seen previously in the game and into the future) in order to accomadate for creatures that exist outside of the normal two legged, two armed parameters.Baggins (talk) 17:55, 15 May 2008 (UTC)

Clothing aside, I don't think anyone is thinking of the main issue... mounts. Naga don't have mounts cause they are creatures of the sea, and they obviously can't ride anything well. Then the 4 legged creatures... only thing they can do is do what they had done with the taurens before giving them kodos... in both cases anyone who chose to be a naga or 4 legged creature would not be allowed to collect any mounts (including flying ones). And if you went engineering you would not be allowed to make those engineering-only mounts as well. User:Coobra/Sig3 19:21, 15 May 2008 (UTC)

Maybe just put pants to the foreparts of a creature? About mounts - are you forgetting about the Plainsrunning, which Tauren used in the beta? It could be used now to four-legged creatures. About flying mounts... maybe their big enough to hold on the dragonspawn or centaur sitting with all four? Naga... just get your tail laid on one of the sides of the horse and it's all (as some women in past ages was riding horses with both legs on the same side). --IconSmall Naga MaleShargas the Naga (blearrgglaerrgall) 20:13, 15 May 2008 (UTC)
Am I forgetting about Plainsrunning? ... lets go back up and read what I said ... and I quote "only thing they can do is do what they had done with the taurens before giving them kodos". They also stated that it was a disadvantage due to when they stop, it would be like dismounting as it takes time to gain speed. User:Coobra/Sig3 20:26, 15 May 2008 (UTC)
Still, it can be improved, and there is still point that maybe (however strange-looking, but still present) they might sit on a big enough mount with all four --IconSmall Naga MaleShargas the Naga (blearrgglaerrgall) 20:31, 15 May 2008 (UTC)
Well as for flying mounts, I don't see them being lifted or sitting on something as they weigh over a ton. Naga, I'm sure blizz could find a way... maybe sit in a basket... I'm just biased told it all I guess... It's my belief blizz will never make a playable race unless it has (only) 2 arms/hands, (only) 2 legs/feet, can wear armor (in a good looking manner)... and there was one other thing, that I can't remember right now. User:Coobra/Sig3 20:42, 15 May 2008 (UTC)

Another problem with the chick nagas is their 4 arms. I mean gloves cover all 4 hands, but they can only hold 2 weps, leaving the other arms all useless and floppy. Plus because with them having 4 arms, they cock their weapons making them look stupid and unintimidating.  IconSmall HighElf Male Mr.X8 Talk Contribs 20:47, 15 May 2008 (UTC)

Honestly... Shargga... I'm not going to take most of your ideas seriously... Some of your ideas are leaning toward the absurd. Having originally lived in the country, your descriptions remind me of horses mounting uh each other [4]... If it looks silly, aesthetically wrong, Blizzard isn't going to do it. Also do you have any idea how silly it would look to have pants on the front of someone with their uh "ass" sticking out? Plus if blizzard was to set up "S&M pants" for centaur they would have to create extra textures to show how the pants were hanging onto the body of the centaur. Otherwise it wouldn't look realistic all. That means extra work for the texture designers. It will still look rather silly, and likely aeshetically wrong.Baggins (talk) 20:52, 15 May 2008 (UTC)
Ok, I got it ;) Maybe some of my ideas aren't the best possible, but I believe that Blizzard could do something of it without so much work as statements on this page calls. --IconSmall Naga MaleShargas the Naga (blearrgglaerrgall) 21:07, 15 May 2008 (UTC)

Okay, now this might sound silly, but have you ever seen an NPC centaur wearing pants? No (unless its just one I haven't seen before). So, perhaps the player variety could wear pants, per se. It would be similar to how the Tauren and Trolls have their shoes wrapped around their ankles; the belt would be somewhat higher on the Centaur's waist, and the pants would appear just below it as a colored line, coming down to the centaur's chest. As for the mounts, I have no idea. :P Bill (talk) 21:21, 15 May 2008 (UTC)

Races not in WoWEdit

Is there a section, unless this is the correct one, where we can list ideas for new races which have rarely been mentioned in Warcraft lore? Rolandius (talk) 11:15, 26 May 2008 (UTC)

On this page we stick to races we have a lot of background information on and nothing appears on the page unless it's from Blizzard sources. If you want, create some fanfic on your user space and link it into the expansion ideas page, where there's a little section on fan-made ideas. ;) ---- Battlegroup RoundIconVorbis AvailablequesticonTalk ActivequesticonContribs 20:37, 26 May 2008 (UTC)
Pure race ideas should go on the bottom of this page really, but it needs cleanup.--SWM2448 20:40, 26 May 2008 (UTC)
I'd prefer it if we stuck to races we actually have in Warcraft lore when it comes to putting them on this page in particular. Also, we should have a section for race arguments which do not incorporate original content. ---- Battlegroup RoundIconVorbis AvailablequesticonTalk ActivequesticonContribs 20:46, 26 May 2008 (UTC)

Missing quoteEdit

A few months ago I read a quote, which I now cannot remember where I saw it. I am pretty sure it was official too and said by a soldier. The quote went something like "if the ? ever did get organized, there would be a reckoning to handle". The ? that I put in there is the race, which I think were the Gnolls or maybe the Murlocs. Rolandius (talk) 10:19, 27 May 2008 (UTC)

Okay I actually just found it—on WoWWiki. I think I originally read it on The quote says "It has often been stated that the gnolls would be quite a fearsome race, if they ever stopped tearing each other to pieces long enough to organize themselves into an army." [3] (W3Man 139) Rolandius (talk) 10:29, 27 May 2008 (UTC)

Voodoo alignmentEdit

I know people have complained in the past for the quote from the rpg saying that all jungle trolls use divine magic for evil purposes, under the pandaren section. After researching through the various RPG books I have found the context behind it.

It actually makes sense if you look at the alignment and descriptions of what voodoo is considered according to the lore in the RPG. First off in alignement for wielders of voodoo the witch doctors, and the shadow hunters, it is often described as being only for any "non-good" and/or "non-lawful" characters. These of course are in reference to the RPG alignment information (which is tied inseparably into the lore in the RPG books). So terms such as non-good, or chaotic, or evil will show up in the background information describing voodoo.

So let's clarify these terms a little bit, "any non-good" includes the various neutral to evil Alignments without the "good" descriptor. This means they are generally towards the positive nature. "Any non-lawful is going to include any neutral to chaotic descriptor (chaos meaning it is more destructive in nature, and is opposite of order). Chaotic good or the neutral good, might fall under the "non-lawful" banner, however this is less likely considering that the overall religion is described as being "non-good", "malign", "malignant", "dark", "bloodthirsty" and "unnatural". Generally speaking the orcs and tauren are trying to get the Darkspear trolls to give up their voodoo religion entirely, and switch over to shamanism or druidism, the "nature" paths according to the lore. Many of the voodoo spell types have the dark, evil, or shadow descriptors. These are negative forms of magic. Generally speaking having more in common with fel magic than anything positive. These are directly opposing to any of the "good" spell types. Curses for example are considered wrong/non-good, even if used on evil beings.

So from certain perpectives yes voodoo can be described as evil, and its cetainly said to be "non-good". Now with this information given here in greater detail, there may not be a need for an overally long explanation in the topic it self. However it currently has many of the page citations where the info and explanations on voodoo originate. Vorbis can choose to trim the commentary in the main page, if he feels this talk page explanation is sufficient, but he'll have to adjust the citations.Baggins (talk) 20:58, 27 May 2008 (UTC)

Thats kinda inconsistent. Rok'han, Vol'jin, and Sen'jin are all good practitioners of Vodoo and they are quite benovelent. Thats not even counting the good voodoo users in WoW. Zarnks (talk) 21:55, 18 July 2008 (UTC)

Not trying to be snarky, Zarnks, but you seem to be confusing the practitioner with the practice. "Benevolent" people can engage in a lot of straight-forwardly evil practices--both IRL and in-game. Similarly, look at the Blood Elves' use of the Holy Light--powers of good subverted to evil. It makes sense from that perspective. Tiraline (talk) 22:15, 19 September 2008 (UTC)

Makruras (is that how you spell it?) Edit

I was just curious: why aren't there Makrura on this page? I thought they used to be on...if Naga and murlocs are on this page, they can be too. P.S.: check out my cool new signature:  Bill IconSmall Tauren Male (talk - contr - web)

They were removed because their are too many problems. They are less humanoid than any other race, technically not really humanoid by the true definition of the word. They physically more animal than humanoid. They don't wear clothes (they don't need to they already have natural armor). They have limited technological knowledge (generally speaking they live in extremely crude buildings, and don't use many tools), extremely "primitive" by most races standards. Quite a few other reasons. Read the makrura webpage to learn more about their culture.Baggins (talk) 01:46, 30 May 2008 (UTC)

Thats true...I suppose I didn't get a real good look at a picture, and it looks like they couldn't use a weapon with their claws, or really wear clothes, and the four legs problem still sort of applies to them. Thanks  Bill the Hunter IconSmall Tauren Male (talk - contr - web)

They are also kind assymetrical which we feel would be a problem for faceless ones becoming playable as well.Baggins (talk) 03:30, 30 May 2008 (UTC)
Surprisingly Faceless ones were going to be playable in the RPG, but got pulled as new lore is being developed for them in Wrath apparently. One reference to their playable racial stats remains in the book.Baggins (talk) 19:54, 13 June 2008 (UTC)


I propose an addition for a Clockwork race to be added to this page. They would be mechanical humanoids created by Gnome tinkerers and most likely be centered around Ironforge. Why Gnomes and not Goblins? Because (as referenced in the Goblins versus gnomes page) they're more focused on tinkering with machines, while the Goblins are more focused on explosives and volatile experiments, and also because it'd be easier to implement a race that is already under the umbrella of an existing playable race. For the same reasons they would also most likely be Alliance and not Horde. They already exist in some forms around the WoW universe, and would add an interesting aesthetic choice to playable characters, as the created characters could have some bodily animations like steam and moving cogs. I opted not to put this on the subspecies page because although they'd be created, they wouldn't necessarily be Gnome-like (consider also that the Forsaken were "created" by a human and are now a main race). Gutsdozer (talk) 01:59, 2 June 2008 (UTC)

that sounds...pritty stupid. there is no clockworks currently in wow, no lore, non-organic, and they are just goblins servants. they dont even have legs. Kesmana (talk) 11:51, 8 June 2008 (UTC)

Calling ideas stupid is very rude.--SWM2448 17:40, 8 June 2008 (UTC)

You spelled "pretty" wrong too. Why don't you try looking up non-represented races on the page and think of ideas for them?  IconSmall HighElf Male Mr.X8 Talk Contribs 23:18, 23 June 2008 (UTC)

Robot dance! cool, but would not work Noobi666 (talk) 17:18, 28 August 2008 (UTC)

Unless you're referring to Mechagnomes, there is no real precidence for true artificial intelligence in WoW.

No Noes Edit

Vrykul=primitive, too much like humans, allied with scourge, hostile.
Robots=no....just no....mechanic, cant be humanoid....they are more like pets or mounts, but not playable race
Flying races= nope
over 7 meters tall races. And by the way, why do all race ideas in future race ideas article have to be so crappy? thanks.
PS:they have to be able to wear gear.Kesmana (talk) 12:10, 8 June 2008 (UTC)

What do you mean by all race ideas here being 'so crappy'?--SWM2448 17:43, 8 June 2008 (UTC)

no there is some very good ideas, but some are just stupid. Kesmana (talk) 09:26, 9 June 2008 (UTC)

Like yours, for instance? But seriously, keep your opinion to yourself. ---- Battlegroup RoundIconVorbis AvailablequesticonTalk ActivequesticonContribs 18:36, 9 June 2008 (UTC)

The whole point of this article is to compare the sentient spiecies of Azeroth (and Draenor) and compare the pro's and con's of whether they could be a possible playable race. In that sense there are no crappy ideas- just the information that Blizzard has given us, and a bit of creativity of the users. If you think an article is "crappy" why don't you try to improve it?

As for the Vrykul- there isn't a lot of information right now, and its possible that they may have a group of them that might be like the Forsaken- rejecting the actions of the scourge and welcoming the help of adventurers. Also, in case you haven't noticed there are plenty of races that look pretty human. Dwarves? Short, stocky humans with (usually) long beards. High/Blood elves? Tall, lithe humans with pointy ears. Forsaken? Dead humans. Gnomes? REALLY short stocky humans. Orcs? Trolls? Night elves? I could go on... ;)--Blayaden (talk) 21:20, 9 June 2008 (UTC)

i mean....robots :P Kesmana (talk) 11:19, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

And where do you see any robots on article page? Severin Andrews 14:43, 13 June 2008 (UTC)
not in the article but look one discussion up.Baggins (talk) 19:52, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

And what's so bad about robots, hmm?

Gearmaster Mechazod is a robotic gnome. He's crazy, but still a sentient being.

And honestly...saying "no robots" is like saying "no Forskaen". Forsaken, by all accounts, should be nothing more then mindless undead brutes. Are they? No. They have personalities.

There is nothing stopping Blizz from coming up with some crap about gnomes/goblins putting in a special chip or something to give them personalities.

And even then, there's always Mechagnomes. Toran Wildpaw of the Frenzyheart (talk) 19:17, 19 September 2008 (UTC)

Gnoll females Edit

Charlga Razorflank

The article says "no females currently in game". I don't know of in-game, but there is in game files a model called "gnollcaster", which, like "quillboarcaster", "centaurcaster" and "dragonspawncaster" have female features. So at least model is here. Is it unused? Severin Andrews 14:45, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

As the only difference between them is a hood and robe, rather than pants, theres no reason to believe that thats the female. They actually have several female models in the files, most never completed and others just a name placeholder. They'll most likely only create a female version if one is required for a specific purpose. User:Coobra/Sig3 19:38, 13 June 2008 (UTC)
This is also the case with Quillboar, and we don't get "no female in-game" part in their section. Severin Andrews 08:52, 14 June 2008 (UTC)
There are female quilboar in game, or at least one ;).Baggins (talk) 08:53, 14 June 2008 (UTC)
Yep, and her model is "quilboarcaster.m2". Everywhere we get *caster.m2 it turns out to be the female. And I believe that's also the same with Gnoll. Severin Andrews 08:59, 14 June 2008 (UTC)
I believe the difference here is that males and females get used in-game currently. You have to datamine to learn about any gnoll females. We have a policy against most datamined information.Baggins (talk) 09:03, 14 June 2008 (UTC)
So you're saying that WoW Model Viewer is not allowed anymore? User:Gourra/Sig2 09:12, 14 June 2008 (UTC)
ACtually I got the impression he said that they don't have female features, so may not be female. At least Chargla has breasts compared to the other quilboar, from what I can tell.Baggins (talk) 09:11, 14 June 2008 (UTC)
Um, didn't Coobra just said they are there, just not marked as female? It means it's not datamined. However, I don't want to argue about the gnoll females. I just wanted to point my opinion. ;) Severin Andrews 09:09, 14 June 2008 (UTC)

He stated;

"As the only difference between them is a hood and robe, rather than pants, theres no reason to believe that thats the female."

I.E. One doesn't have female anatomy, both look exactly the same physically, and that there is nothing stating they are female.Baggins (talk) 09:16, 14 June 2008 (UTC)

Owlkin? Edit

This isn't really about adding any new race, but I was just curious as to why owlkin are listed as an impossible race. Also, would this apply to the other "-kin" creatures (Wildkin, etc.)? Bill IconSmall Tauren Male (talk - contr - web)

Let's count the ways. Generally more animal like than fully sapient (the race cannot even speak, except for some rare exceptions). Their body is practically egg shaped, they don't wear clothes. They don't really have normal arms, hands and feet. The winglets on their arms could cause issues as well. They are already used as a druid form, "moonkin"...Baggins (talk) 01:48, 17 June 2008 (UTC)
I know of one race that could be removed for the same reasons after the release of WotLK, but since its still in alpha, I can not say. User:Coobra/Sig3 18:24, 18 June 2008 (UTC)
Eh, for the above reasons "do not wear clothes" could be be used to remove any number of things on the list, from lore we already know. Did I mention that according to Dark Factions quilboar do not wear shirts, and only pants? Probably because it would be difficult to get over their head :p... and rolly polly, "egg-shaped" could eliminate tuskarr, and a number of things, we already know they are big, fat and rolly poly according to artwork in Dark Factions and elsewhere... and the "do not speak" for rare exceptions could eliminate a handful of things on the list such as worgen... Do not have normal hands? artwork for nerubians do not always have normal hands, arms and feet, and from what we have seen in previous material they are kinda big and roly poly, and do not wear clothes other than hood. Let's see there is that concept art of a murloc-like thing that's kinda big and rolly poly (egg-shaped), and we know that murlocs dont' wear clothes from lore, although they can speak... Let's see worgen, are bestial, mostly animal like although they can speak a little... But certainly fit the "less than sapient" clause above from lore we already know...
Would you like me to start removing based on my above criteria?Baggins (talk) 21:55, 18 June 2008 (UTC)
I'm pretty sure both I and Ragestorm on IRC said to drop it until the info is released. --Sky (t · c · w) 21:58, 18 June 2008 (UTC)
The info has been released right? Coobra care to clarify now?Baggins (talk) 00:20, 14 August 2008 (UTC)
I actually don't remember what I was talking about lol, but my comment was directed towards Bill, about races that could be removed by the same reason he gave, but I didn't mean to say they should be removed, guess I forgot to add that part. User:Coobra/Sig3 00:23, 14 August 2008 (UTC)

Super MurclocsEdit

It has been announced that one of the aldor/scryer equivalent in WotLK will be a race of super evolved Murlocs. Although I could be speaking prematurely, this might remove many of the objections, and even add some green points, towards Murlocs becoming a playable race. They'll pretty much have to add more support for armour and weapons to Murlocs at least. Maybe this is even Blizzard deliberaly paving the way to make Murlocs playable in a future expansion (maybe Maelstrom?). I hope they join the horde, I love Murlocs. --KharBevNor (talk) 05:51, 18 July 2008 (UTC)

Just because a race might be more "evolved" than its ancestor doesn't mean they'll be fully clothed, if anything they are giving more storyline around the creatures. In any case, yes, you are a bit premature on this topic. User:Coobra/Sig3 06:00, 18 July 2008 (UTC)
Oracles. Kirkburn  talk  contr 13:56, 18 July 2008 (UTC)

Quilboar Edit

In the age page I read they commit a ritual suicide at the age of three. Should that be said? Airiph/T/C/B 16:39, 1 September 2008 (UTC)

Um no, its adulthood at age of three. They get to age 47 at least (old age), before suicide occurs.Baggins (talk) 17:47, 1 September 2008 (UTC)


I have no way to judge size, but how large are vyrkul? I've heard they are twice as tall as humans. We have a policy against "giants". Additionally while they might have different facial expression/skin and haircuts they more or less look like giant humans. Even if they weren't gigantic, they'd better fit the general concept of the "subspecies" page than here. Although we'd probably have to rename subspecies page to something else, since it would be misleading to infer that vrykul are subspecies since they are actually a protospecies :p...Baggins (talk) 15:22, 19 September 2008 (UTC)

"Additionally while they might have different facial expression/skin and haircuts they more or less look like giant humans."

Dwarves more or less look like small humans, yet do I see anyone complaining? Toran Wildpaw of the Frenzyheart (talk) 22:02, 19 September 2008 (UTC)

This whole page is for "new ideas" not races directly connected to other already playable races. That is the point of this page. Again, giants aren't allowed on this page, due to previous rules.Baggins (talk) 21:17, 21 September 2008 (UTC)

But they AREN'T giants. They're half-giants. There's a difference! Toran Wildpaw of the Frenzyheart (talk) 02:14, 22 September 2008 (UTC)

Twice as tall as humans, that makes them 12 feet. That's taller than the 8 foot male tauren. Most town doorways aren't twice as tall as humans, and are just barely the right size for taurens... If ogres have doorway issues, what do you think Vrykul will have? Vrykul are taller than ogres... If ogres count as giants...what does that make vrykul?Baggins (talk) 02:21, 22 September 2008 (UTC)

Also, I suppose that if vrykul are drastically reduced in size then they'll just look like bearded humans. Which kind of defeats the object... ---- Battlegroup RoundIconVorbis AvailablequesticonTalk ActivequesticonContribs 15:29, 22 September 2008 (UTC)

And yet size isn't stopping Drakonids or ogres from being on there? Toran Wildpaw of the Frenzyheart (talk) 22:14, 22 September 2008 (UTC)

Ogres in lore vary as small as tauren in size (that could be followed in-game). I do agree with you on drakonids though. I also think nathrezim should be removed as well for similar reasons.Baggins (talk) 22:18, 22 September 2008 (UTC)

You've said it yourself before though, Blizzard has stated that ogre are giants and cannot fit through doors. Congratulations, you just contradicted yourself! Not ment to be offensive, just cracking a stupid joke <_<. Toran Wildpaw of the Frenzyheart (talk) 22:25, 22 September 2008 (UTC)

The average ingame ogres cannot fit through most doors (they are generally much taller than tauren). They'd have to shrink them down to tauren size to allow them to fit into doors. They eventually released the ogre idol allowing players to turn into ogres almost anywhere (contradicting previous statement about ingame ogres). This ogre as far as I know is small enough to fit through doors.Baggins (talk) 22:31, 22 September 2008 (UTC)

Nathrezim Edit

With recent developments in mind, I think it's about time the nathrezim were removed from the page. They were a novel idea to begin with, but the possibility of their becoming a playable race in either of the two factions is now incredibly unlikely. ---- Battlegroup RoundIconVorbis AvailablequesticonTalk ActivequesticonContribs 17:33, 26 September 2008 (UTC)
yes, remove the buggers... I've always thought they seemed awkward, since they were largely "gigantic" in lore, and most appearances ingame. Not to mention the fact they were always described as evil manipulators. I'd also suggest removing drackonids as well, since they seem to always be giants as well.Baggins (talk) 18:02, 26 September 2008 (UTC)
If we can get confirmation that drakonids are exclusively gigantic, then yes of course. :) ---- Battlegroup RoundIconVorbis AvailablequesticonTalk ActivequesticonContribs 18:24, 26 September 2008 (UTC)
One tauren sized drakonid in-game would be good evidence that they can be player-size small.Baggins (talk) 18:25, 26 September 2008 (UTC)
Indeed, just as with the ogres. ---- Battlegroup RoundIconVorbis AvailablequesticonTalk ActivequesticonContribs 15:38, 27 September 2008 (UTC)
Ogres are very different in that in the lore we know that at adulthood they are not larger than tauren. 6 to 7.5 feet, but grow larger throughout their life. In game they don't have to follow the "grow" throughout their life part of it though. With drakonids we have no lore, nothing saying they can be smaller than they appear, etc.Baggins (talk) 16:10, 27 September 2008 (UTC)

Removed NathrezimEdit



"If I have wings, why am I always walking?"

First seen in Warcraft 3

See also: Race ideas


? Already wear armors in-game.

? Possible Forsaken-type lore. Some nathrezim have decided to make their own way[citation needed] after the fall of Archimonde and Tichondrius, loosening their binds to the Legion[citation needed] and now have their own agenda, as we can see from Varimathras, Balnazzar, Mal'Ganis and the presence of numerous nathrezim in Illidan's forces. An agenda is shared between Varimathras and Balnazzar.[4] (HPG 153, 154, 180)[5]

? Dreadlords, masters of trickery, deceit, and guile, take pride in the fiendish destruction they have wrought on Azeroth.[6] (MG 50) Dreadlords prefer to turn their talents to psychic assault and manipulation, seeking to dissolve the bonds that unify individuals, groups, and nations and leave their mortal victims floundering amidst chaos and decay.[7] (MoM 117) As powerful infiltrators and manipulators, joining the Alliance or Horde will certainly not be out of their grasp if they wish to make use of them.

? Females of this race (NOT succubi!) do not currently exist in-game.

? Do not currently possess their own style of architecture/buildings. Then again, as those encountered thus far are only tacticians within the Burning Legion war machine there is no reason why they should. It is likely that the highly intelligent nathrezim have architectural skill, though it is possible that their designs are already reflected in Burning Legion architecture.

? The nathrezim are forbidden from killing another of their race, though this only proved a minor obstacle to the rebel nathrezim Varimathras when he attempted to kill his brother. However, it is believed he only tricked Sylvanas into believing he may have killed his brother for his own ends, and is currently manipulating the Forsaken.[4] (HPG 153, 154, 180) ...evil never truly dies...[6] (MG 50) We see that not even Mal'Ganis was "killed".

? They are a "Demon"-type creature in-game, not Humanoid.

However, this could be changed in the same way as Forsaken are not Undead.

? Nathrezim are not given playable rules in the World of Warcraft RPG, due to the race being too powerful. At 1st level its abilites are the equivalent a level 17 player. There was an idea for playing the character in original Warcraft RPG, but instead starting at level 9.

- They are good flyers[7] (MoM 117)[6] (MG 117). In fact, they are better at flying than harpies.[7] (MoM 55) [6] (MG 87) A flying race would be unfairly imbalanced in the game world.

This could be, however, demoted to racial flying mount, for game balance.

-Nathrezim in their natural form appear or are described to be very tall and massive in the sources they appear in. A massive demon, a night elf is considered comparatively small next to one. The wings represent extreme width issues, and take up alot of room. The wings are as nearly as wide as the nathrezim are tall. The are wider than most doors. They wings could also pose armor issues, as most armor is not setup for wings[8] (APG 135, 172, 174)

Nathrezim are mostly 8.5 feet[citation needed], all playable tauren are 8 feet in height according to the WoW manual.

- Nathrezim and annihilan are lords of the Burning Legion.[6] (MG 38) Dreadlords do not work in the same area as other dreadlords, instead they are solitary. They lead Burning Legion forces or manipulate others alone.[6] (MG 50) Nathrezim prefer a leadership role, standing behind other allies and retreating when their enemies press too close. This is particularly true of the weaker nathrezim.[7] (MoM 117) Dreadlords invariably stay behind the scenes and effect change through proxies. Adventurers might go their whole lives and never realize a dreadlord has acted against them in countless, seemingly unrelated ways. Only after much exertion and investigation do the heroes uncover the dreadlord behind a plot. Even then, the task of tracking and slaying a dreadlord can overwhelm the most competent hunter of evil.[6] (MG 50)

- Nathrezim are always evil.[6] (MG 50) All members of the race are evil. Exceptions, if they exist, comprise less than 1% of the race's population and apply to isolated individuals.[4] (HPG 8) For the nathrazim malice is the ultimate gift. To torment another creature with physical and moral agony offers something superior to happiness or contentment.[7] (MoM 117) They are demonic soul vampires, and are thus hated by most mortal races on Azeroth.

Being evil is not barrier becoming playable race, forsakens are evil too.

Join the Alliance?

? The draenei and night elves have a particular enmity with nathrezim and would protest should they join the Alliance, as the majority of their current problems stem from the actions of the Burning Legion. Nevertheless, every mortal has a price; and as Lady Onyxia has shown, infiltrating the Royal Court of Stormwind was only too easy. By manouvring themselves into the perfect position and establishing a tight grip on power, they could even reveal their true forms without too much of a backlash.

-Known to be present in human lands, and have often chosen kill humans and posesss them as disquises. This poses a threat to the human race.

-Varimathras was behind the plans to kill Bolvar Fordragon. This has lead to Stormwind & perhaps most of the Alliance declaring war on the Horde.

- The Alliance has a great number of paladins in its ranks, sworn enemies of all that is unholy. They represent a very real threat to the nathrezim, even if they do manage to infiltrate the Alliance. That said, with the open arrival of death knights to the Alliance, in addition to the current presence of a number of warlocks, "all that is unholy" may already be present in the Grand Alliance's ranks...

Join the Horde?

- Dreadlord Varimathras managed to establish himself as the Forsaken's second-in-command. Varimathras secretly worked with Balnazzar, and may also have worked for Kel'thuzad for his own purposes and to undermine the Forsaken.[4] (HPG 153, 154, 180)[9] Ultimately his plan is found out but not before he takes over Undercity. The orcs do not have a particularly good rapport with the nathrezim, as they failed the Burning Legion twice in the past. Thrall is not likely to trust Nathrezim after Varimathras traitorous actions.[10] Should some "traitor" nathrezim seek to join the Horde, orcs would most likely not trust them at all, due to Varimathras' actions

removed section continuedEdit

Just tossing it into the talk page for archival purposes, when this page goes into the archive.Baggins (talk) 17:04, 27 September 2008 (UTC)

should i add to satyr part that forsaken also live in abandoned human buildings? Noobi666 (talk) 11:40, 1 October 2008 (UTC)

furbol also do not wear armors in-game. Noobi666 (talk) 11:45, 1 October 2008 (UTC)

Nerubians Edit

A point in the nerubian section a while back speculated that they wanted their city back more than they hated everybody. Kilix the Unraveler at least feels this way.--SWM2448 20:47, 9 October 2008 (UTC)

Chen Stormstout a point AGAINST the Horde? Edit

Uh... what? I changed it to light green but then some idiot made it orange again. Saimdusan (talk) 09:22, 3 November 2008 (UTC)

I think he cant even be considered a point ... simple unless he is a King or some sort of Pandaren leader(which if he is so ... im sorry and i ask you to ignore the rest of my comment) he doesnt have much influence over his fellow pandarens ... as a brewmaster he is nothing more than a adventurer so... after all that i can say that ONE pandaren aided Rexxar so his opinions doesnt count much User:Eity 11/11/2008 21:59

But at least it shows pandaren are able to work together with the Horde. There are no big difficulties to overcome before pandaren would be able to join.  Jormungand01 IconSmall Rogue (talk - contr) 16:38, 12 November 2008 (UTC)

Point of note, I'm not sure if he should be "orange", but Chen should be neutral white. He has been listed as independent, and neutral in all the sources he appeared in (including most recent source, tcg). He worked equally with both Horde and briefly with the western Alliance (jaina and the like). As a neutral character he should not get the 'green treatment' whatsoever.Baggins (talk) 17:14, 12 November 2008 (UTC)

Speaking of which why is neutral pandaren fighting against the Horde a red point but a pandaren killing the leader of Kul'tiras a white one? And why is the centaur section so incredibly redundant in the Horde section.

Most of all why is the goblin point orange. Wrath of the lich king has shown plenty of Horde goblins. [5], [6]. Oh well....

The Asaathi Edit

Hey I'm new to wowwiki and don't know all the etiquette and such but I thought I'd add my two cents that perhaps an RPG race that hasn't been mentioned in WoW might make a suitable future race, although they have little lore and background. Here are a few of them: [[Asaath]], [[Asaatthi]], [[Forlarren]], [[Grippli]], [[Korred]], [[Leprechaun]], [[Mite]], [[Steppe troll]], [[Trogodon]], [[Ogrillon]] sorry for the big block of links, and I know that many may easily be discounted and some may have already been mentioned, but I thought I'd show people this.—The preceding unsigned comment was added by Seacow42 (talkcontr).

EDIT: sorry I didn't post a signature of my name, I don't know how edit: took out coal goblin, crabmen, mongrelmen, nymphs, and spider eye goblin—The preceding unsigned comment was added by Seacow42 (talkcontr).

Not enough information, and most of them don't have a big enough population. Sorry. -- Airiph/T/C/B 23:29, 17 December 2008 (UTC)
Most of these sound like D&D races that have been awkwardly inserted into the Warcraft universe. I would avoid suggesting adding any races to the race ideas page that don't appear in other sources of lore besides an old RPG book. --Gengar orange 22x22Beware the sneaky smile! Fandyllic (talk · contr) 2:44 PM PST 8 Apr 2009
the asaath seem to have a large enough population, as well as a hatred for the burning legion and "remaining cities," however I don't have any of those books and thus have no idea about population, i'll take a closer look at the others and scratch the ones that aren't unified or are all evil. (again i'm a wowwiki noob so idk how to comment on a comment).—The preceding unsigned comment was added by Seacow42 (talkcontr).

On the assatthi page, "The asaatthi employ trogodon as guards for their remaining cities" gives a hint that they have a capital and a decent population. -- Airiph/T/C/B 01:42, 18 December 2008 (UTC)

exactly! so, my question is, even though they have little info, they should definitely be considered for this list, right? Seacow42 (talk)

well, start a rough draft here, then I'll help.  Airiph/T/C/B 02:17, 18 December 2008 (UTC)

aight I'll get on it soon -- will post it here when finished (again i'm an amateur so don't expect greatness) Seacow42 (talk) 02:20, 18 December 2008 (UTC)

here it is: pic?: General:

(dark green)hate the burning legion with a passion (demon hunter hero class expansion anyone?)
(dark green)have remaining cities- a large population in the unused area south of ungoro?
(dark green)employ other humanoids to guard their cities (intelligent, understand money)
? hate legion more than anything
(orange) greedy and would have taken the spoils of war should the mortals have lost the 3rd war
? would fit well with a legion killing expansion as they are an ancient civilization with a deep hatred for the legion

for the alliance:
? alliance lacks bestial creatures, such as a lizardman?
? another alliance stronghold in kalimdor
?possibly shamanistic, alliance lacks shaman

for the horde:
? perhaps the same outlook of vengeance against oppresors
? possibly shamanistic

thats all i got, feel free to add to it Edit: thanks whoever added spaces Seacow42 (talk) 02:42, 18 December 2008 (UTC)

waddya guys think? Seacow42 (talk) 22:38, 18 December 2008 (UTC)

Too much speculation. It is a very minor race.--SWM2448 23:15, 18 December 2008 (UTC)

True, also the image is just fan art I think, we don't exactly allow fan art in articles. - Airiph/T/C/B 23:18, 18 December 2008 (UTC)

the image is one I found on the internet, so it is neither fanart or blizzard related, just a supplement (in order to jog your mind to what they could look like, not to put in an article). I think that even though it may at first seem like a minor race, the words "remaining cities" make me think otherwise, also Blizzard can practically change anything to fit their design. Although I do agree that I use a lot of speculation. My guess is that it will not be implemented, but I really think it should be considered. Seacow42 (talk) 23:47, 18 December 2008 (UTC)

I took the race quiz or whatever to see if the Asaath could work, and it passed most of it except the parts that require more lore, which could be easily remedied however Bliz would decide, if that adds anything to the conversation. Seacow42 (talk) 00:45, 19 December 2008 (UTC)

yo I need feedbacks lol... please? I see this has already been dismissed >_< Seacow42 (talk) 01:58, 20 December 2008 (UTC)

The Grell?Edit



"Hey man, I'm no warlock imp!"

First seen in World of Warcraft'

What do you all say about those little, playful demons? ~ Slumpstar (talk) 7:55, 4 January 2010 (Pacific time)

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