September 2006: As per the recent race names vote at Wowpedia talk:Writing policy#Race name case, the correct race name spelling is "night elf" and not "Night Elf"
In WarCraft 3 time and time again it was emphasized that the Night Elven society is segregated by sex -- that is to say, females dominated positions of war (both hunters AND gatherers) while men were more aimed towards the pursuits of intelligence (druids).
It has been said that prior to the release of World of WarCraft, Chris Metzen, one of those most directly responsible for the lore behind the universe, fought a long and arduous battle to keep this; however, for reasons that can only be speculated (sexual equality too important?) as of World of WarCraft men can be warriors/rogues/hunters/priests just as women can be druids.
If they wish to canonize this they could explain it, I guess, by saying that the influence of their new allies, specifically the adaptive humans, encouraged their people to "try new things".
My question is -- was this ever explained? Anywhere? Has a reason been formulated, or has it officially been retconned, or what?
--another point of interest is the War of the Ancients trilogy which, though staying true to the very ruler of the Night Elves being female, Queen Azshara, makes out most of the army to be male. This could still go with the former story in that druids weren't really popular back then, as Malfurion was the first one, so it's possible all the men became druids after. However, if they want to retcon out the female dominance of all things war as it was in WarCraft 3, I guess they could just say everything stayed the way it was in the trilogy.
Thoughts? Info?
--Wasted 01:04, 2 July 2006 (EDT)
- Night Elf civilization goes back a long way, so I tend to doubt that it's an influence of the more "adaptive" alliance races- also, recall that we saw no human females in war until Jaina. I think the simplest explaination is that that the whole "warrior women, druid men" society image was for the purposes of the Long Vigil, when all Night Elves had to take on those roles. Without Archimonde, the need for such a stratified society basically crumbled. But in answer to your more general query: no there has been no official explaination.--Ragestorm 07:37, 2 July 2006 (EDT)
That's a good point, and I hadn't thought of it. However, your point about Jaina is a little questionable! Jaina may be the first one we actually see, but there are records of others. Pathonia Shaw, for example, if you remember -- Mathias Shaw's grandmother, the one who started the Stormwind Assassins -- was among the first of the SI: 7 who've been said to have worked in intelligence and such during the First War, as well as killing scouts and other duties. This places her well before Jaina was born, time-wise.
--Wasted 14:59, 2 July 2006 (EDT)
There is an official explanation for the change concerning gender roles in night elf society. It's only given in the Warcraft RPG as far as I know, though. Here's a quote from the Alliance Player's Guide (written from the point of view of Brann Bronzebeard):
"If you’re a canny historian and traveler like me, you might notice that the gender restrictions on night elf professions no longer seem to be in effect. Traditionally, only night elf men became druids, and only night elf women became Sentinels. Well, so many night elves died in the Third War that Malfurion and Tyrande both decided that it was time to relax the gender restrictions. You might think that seeing the way both men and women act in the rest of the Alliance influenced them, but that’s not true — they came to their decision independently."
-- Foogray 15:22, 2 July 2006 (EDT)
I remember reading a long long time ago that the lore people at Blizzard were totally against the allowing of opposite sexes being classes outside their gender. The main reason that it was allowed as I recall was simply because it would be too restricting on the public (since basically any night elf who wasn't a druid would be playing as a female for the nightelves.) They were kicking themselves a lot over whether females should be allowed as druids. Again for business reasons. Sorry but no citing for this. Pzychotix 01:50, 1 August 2006 (EDT)
- Correct, Chris Metzen was originally against allowing female druids, but in the interest of the game, he was convinced to allow it :) -- Kirkburn 08:07, 1 August 2006 (EDT)
The art of war section
I don't doubt the deadliness of NEs as a whole, but the comments of bloodthirstiness are a bit shocking to me. I don't know THAT much about NEs, but such a comment is quite shocking to me, and isn't what I expected. It could be true, so I left it as is, though I tagged it for accuracy. Would help if some sources were cited. Pzychotix 13:29, 6 August 2006 (EDT)
- As Bookkeeper of Night Elf lore, I must protest this section's tone heavily. "Bloodthirsty" is too strong a word, and the phrase "apparent love of nature" implies that the Night Elves actively seek the destruction of other races. Comparing them to the orcs also a bad idea. Basically, the section implies that everything about the Night Elves is a lie. The section's accuracy and neutrality have been heavily compromised. --Ragestorm 17:22, 6 August 2006 (EDT)
- I was the author of the above statements. I am also aware of how they are depicted in the backstory; however, I was referring more to the way I have seen them played in-game. In my experience the behaviour of players with Night Elf characters, more consistently than that of any other group, has been highly antagonistic and objectionable. They are in my experience overwhelmingly the griefer's race, where WoW is concerned.
- I'm also not sure how you can argue that the Night Elves are even depicted terribly positively within the backstory. They are described and portrayed as being consistently arrogant and xenophobic, at least towards the other sub-branches of their species, (the High Elves and Blood Elves) viewing the latter as an abomination. It is also implied within the game that they consider the Tauren immature and inferior with regard to the latter race's druidic abilities.
- In terms of the section having been compromised...I'd perhaps agree in terms of *neutrality*. But my perspective has only developed as a product of observation over time, and that observation has gradually led me to consider the overall character of the Night Elves to be deeply hypocritical, and generally rather detestable, to be totally honest. In more simplistic terms, they're really not nice. ;-)
- Petrus4 11:01, 8 August 2006 (EDT)
- Uh, these articles pertain to the actual races, and the official view on them. The people playing them who do them no justice are hardly justification for calling them bloodthirsty. Now, if you were talking about NPCs, that would be a different story. But, as 90% of the intrawebz nubz are likely to play NE for the prettiness (and 80% of that NE females), you're more than likely to get a couple a-holes playing NEs, but the same can happen with any player on a different race. Basically, your experiences with players playing NEs are representative of the players themselves, hardly representative of NE players.
- Their animosity towards High Elves and Blood Elves are also very reasonable. From this page alone, all you would need is to read the first few paragraphs of the introduction and history. It was because the elves tried using arcane magic that such catastrophes happened to Azeroth. The highborne (which eventually would be the high elves and blood elves) were so greedy that they basically summoned Sargeras and caused the War of the Ancients. Even after such disasters, the high elves were still addicted to magic. The exile set forth upon them was definitely very reasonable, if not charitable.
- Finally, although Tauren may have lived as long as NEs in Azeroth, their druidic knowledge is far less than NEs. The Tauren have been shamans much longer than they have been druids, as, from the tauren page says, "elements of druidism have been recently reincorporated into tauren society". Taurens ARE inferior to NEs in terms of druidic knowledge, but the NEs are actively aiding the taurens, as the taurens actively seek NEs for knowledge. You don't see NEs druids running over to Thunderbluff do you? Pzychotix 11:43, 8 August 2006 (EDT)
- And "Archdruid" Staghelm's views of Taruen (which you have reproduced above) are NOT the opinions of the average Night Elf. I point to to Tyrande's interaction with Furbolgs in Eternity's End as signs of xenophobia. As a race where all the men worship nature, how would you like it if short-lived green and pink people suddenly turned up and started cutting down the forest you've preserved for ten thousand years? The concept of Night Elven superiority is a recent occurence, emerging after the destruction of Nordrassil, again perpetuated by Staghelm, and is not embraced by most Night Elves (as in the characters, not the players) or by the true leaders of Kaldorei society. --Ragestorm 16:14, 8 August 2006 (EDT)
Antlers?
From various sources I have seen, those antlers pesent on Furion and Druids of the Claw were not ornaments, but natural growths from their head? Is this true? And if so, is this natural for Night Elven males, or does it have something to do with druidic magic? Omacron
- Not sure about druids of the Claw, but Furion's antlers are definetly real. This is established in the War of the Ancients books, where they seriously start to grow out of his forehead. Even with that ignored, you can clearly see in his portrait and model from WC3 (and related concept art) that the antlers are not attached to any sort of clothing. It is implied that it is the mark of an Arch-Druid to bear antlers (which might say something about Staghelm's character). --Ragestorm 09:24, 25 August 2006 (EDT)
- Also, note Staghelm's name. Stag. Helm. =) -- Kirkburn 09:26, 25 August 2006 (EDT)
- Ironic, considering the antlers shown are sometimes those of a moose. --Ragestorm 13:32, 25 August 2006 (EDT)
Could someone add an additional backround
I do not see how why the Night Elves would have joined the alliance other than ballance for WoW. The reasons for the Undead join the Horde has been explained by Blizzard many times and it's explanation is the same as the one found here on WoWWiki. However, the only explanation for the Night Elves to not be a part of the Horde is that they are destructive to the nature, Warsong Lumber Yard is then given as an example. The humans, dwarves and gnomes are much more destructive to nature. Redwood has almost been completely stripped of trees, Elwyn forest is in the process of being stripped and the lumber mill in West fall indicates trees were around there at some point. The only Orcs have proven them selves to not be a part of the legion any more. They are truly searching to rebalance their souls. Also the Tauren and Night elves have been friends in the past which makes for a good middle man. I would like a further explanation to why the night elves allied with the Alliance.
- Think about what areas are being logged though - the orcs are cutting down trees in traditionally night elven land (i.e. Ashenvale) - the humans, gnomes and dwarves are only doing it on their own territory, on another continent. -- Kirkburn (talk) 12:24, 3 September 2006 (EDT)
- I think that the Forsaken being added to the Horde and the agenda of Staghelm also have something to do with it. The Night elves dislike the undead for numerous reasons, and it has already been established that Staghelm's mysterious agenda has consequences for the race as a whole. Additionally, the Alliance is looser in loyalty than the Horde; the night elves could join the Alliance and provide a minimal amount of support, while they would be unable to do so by joining the far more centralized Horde. --Ragestorm 18:35, 3 September 2006 (EDT)
Age?
Call me a lore newbie (that I am), but what do you think of the general age range of a player character night elf in WoW? I have been wondering about that for some time now. (Also, might be an useful factoid to add in the main page too.) Akx 01:17, 5 September 2006 (EDT)