Talk:Kil'jaeden

This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the Kil'jaeden article.
Please sign and date your posts by typing four tildes (~~~~). Put new text under old text. Click here to start a new topic. If you're new to the wiki, please take a look at our Talk page guidelines.	Be polite Assume good faith Be welcoming

Debate on power levels moved to Talk:Kil'jaeden/Lore

Kazzak

On the buttom of the page under the Misc section, it says "There is a location in the Hellfire Peninsula in Outland known as the Throne of Kil'Jaeden. It is here that Lord Kazzak - a lieutenant of the Burning Legion - can be found. The novel Rise of the Horde reveals that this is where the orcs drank the blood of Mannoroth. Gul'dan named it Kil'jaeden's throne."

However Lord Kazzak is currently located in Blasted Lands. Does this mean that as speculated, once the portal is reopened he returns to Outland? If so, is he no longer an outdoor raid boss located in Blasted Lands? Is he a higher level raid boss in Outland? Or was that line miss-typed all together? ~Bao 14:28, 24 December 2006 (MST)

Kazzak will move to the Throne of Kil'jaeden after the Burning Crusade is released. Once there, I believe that his outdoor encounter will continue as before.-_Ragestorm, Head Bookkeeper 17:10, 24 December 2006 (EST)

In TBC he is currently raidable - and severely painful! Doom Lord Kazzak, he is, iirc. An upgraded Kazzak. Not sure if he'll literally be moving home completely, his current form may still exist. -- Kirkburn (talk) 17:17, 24 December 2006 (EST)

Random musing on pronunciation

Kil-jay-din, or Kil-jih-din?--Sky

I would say Kill-jaa-eden or Kill-jæy-den. User:Kirkburn/Sig 03:44, 23 January 2007 (EST)

I say kill-JAY-den. I think that's what the first of Sky's and the second of Kirkburn's suggestions reflect as well. An apostrophe in the middle of a name signifies a "word-intonation-restart" following it. I believe Illidan does pronounce it that way in the Frozen Throne.----  Varghedin  talk / contribs 08:00, 23 January 2007 (EST)

Illidan does indeed say "kill-JAY-den."--Ragestorm (talk · contr) 17:37, 23 January 2007 (EST)

Better Picture

Can we please get a better picture from Frozen Throne. I know he rarely shows up but I would like someone to get the picture where he first meets up with Illidan. This is because its shows his whole body, its shows tracks of fire where he's been walking and it has a nice glowing effect that his second appearance in the game lacks.---Noman953 11:28, 23 January 2007

Kil'Jaeden?

On the EU forums, Kil'jaeden is spelled with a capital J. What's true now? Iggey 05:28, 18 March 2007 (EDT)

That's just the name of a realm, hardly a convincing argument - the realm namers have been known to misspell realms before. User:Kirkburn/Sig2 08:27, 18 March 2007 (EDT)

Cleanup

Specific examples and suggestions, por favor. Can't fix it if we don't know what's wrong. I find it difficult to believe that this article was tagged before Illidan's monstrosity. --Ragestorm (talk · contr) 03:37, 16 July 2007 (UTC)

OK, I'm not too sure yet how all this page tagging works. Are there requirements that have to be met before a page is marked? Why not mark Illidan's page the same way if it is such a monstrosity (I did have a brief look the page and I think I have to agree).

Some examples I can give are:

• redundant information - eg. constant reference to Kil'jaeden's intelligence.
• subjective telling of events - eg. While Archimonde led the Legion's armies, their sheer size and vast potential for destruction can only be attributed to Kil'jaeden having done his job well., or Gul'dan's indomitable lust for power and his selfish disregard of anything but himself made him the perfect pawn for the demon., or But Kil'jaeden was no fool.
• assumptions about character motivations - eg. Kil'jaeden, infuriated, knew that the time had come to take matters into his own hands., or Although Kil'jaeden was infuriated at the failure and death of Archimonde, he knew better than to take reckless vengeance. - may or may not be true, but doesn't belong in a factual retelling of events.

This would be a much shorter and pleasant to read article if they were re rerwitten properly. I'm hoping someone can do a better job than I can, so I marked the page. Raze 04:29, 16 July 2007 (UTC)

Hmm... well, Kil'jaeden's true menace is his cunning, but it could perhaps do without as many references. As for the others, I can see where you're coming from, but I'm not entirely certain I agree. Perhaps try a couple of edits you think are worth it and some of us can critique? --Ragestorm (talk · contr) 12:30, 16 July 2007 (UTC)

Good idea. I'll have a go after doing a bit of research. Raze 06:25, 18 July 2007 (UTC)

Errr... i wanted to ask where did Kil'jaeden sit upon the right hand of Sargeras came from? As foar as i can remember the on who sit on the right hand of Sargeras is Archimonde. War of the Ancient: DEmon Soul, Pg 47 by Krasus.

Even though Kil'jaeden's true menence is his intelligence i think the Kil'jaeden page is too biases toward him almost refering him to infinitely cunning after i read the page. Remember the Lich King have outsmarted Kil'jaeden and gone out of his control and apparently Kil'jaeden had not anticipatted that. `SO 'The Deciver' have been DECIEVED.' LoreFanBoy 05:29, 14 November 2007 (UTC)

Raid boss

In a recent interview it has been confirmed that Kil'jaeden will be a raid boss in Sunwell plateau. Zarnks 08:36, 25 August 2007 (UTC)

^{[citation needed]}  N'Nanz 09:16, 25 August 2007 (UTC)

Kil'jaeden as a raid boss is not confirmed as of right now, though a video interview about the Sunwell instances is apparently on the way. --Raze 09:44, 25 August 2007 (UTC)

So we are gonna fight Kil'jaeden before the Lich King? I don't belive it. --Odolwa 22:48, 25 August 2007 (UTC)

Its from the magazine article,the one in which Metzen compares Illidan to Boba Fett. Here it is[1]. Anyway who says were going to kill Kil'jaeden my understanding is that we are just going to make him retreat from the Sunwell. He's had it coming for sure. I don't think Kil'jaeden has ever been a good guy and he is more a personification of evil. Every playable race has good reasons to hate the guy. Zarnks 01:41, 26 August 2007 (UTC)

Sorry, but I can't see where it's told he'll be in the Sunwell Plateau... N'Nanz 08:57, 26 August 2007 (UTC)

Zarnks Kil'jaeden was not always evil once he was good a champion of the eredar like Velen, but then Sargeras came and transformed him into a demon. 19:15, 26 January 2008 (UTC) —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Geeko (talk · contr).

Why does he want to come to Azeroth?

The question is why Kil'jaeden would want to be summoned to Azeroth. My theory is the following: You all know how much Kil'jaeden hates traitors, just see the measures he went through in order to punish Velen. It could be something simular with Ner'zhul. Now that Illidan failed to destroy him, maybe Kil'jaeden took matters into his own hands in order to punish Ner'zhul for his betrayal.
If this is true, why not welcome Kil'jaeden's aid? If the only thing Kil'jaeden is seeking is revenge, we would all benefit from cooperating with him. --Odolwa 00:09, 28 August 2007 (UTC)

Oh sure, here is a real world metaphor/analogy: You have an enemy. You stand next to him. THEN YOU NUKE HIM. Kil wants him gone and so do we, sure, but you know what else he wants gone? Everything. It is not smart at all. 'Oh thanks for killing the Lich King, are you leaving now?' His responce: DOOM!--SWM2448 00:25, 28 August 2007 (UTC)

Though its not honorable it could be useful to wait till he fights the lich king. Then have a hidden army of heroes to finish off the survivor of the fight. Zarnks 05:55, 28 August 2007 (UTC)

Definetly not his style.--Ragestorm (talk · contr) 13:49, 28 August 2007 (UTC)

What makes you say that, Ragestorm? --Odolwa 21:34, 28 August 2007 (UTC)

Well, he's likely gonna know if the mortals are lying in wait for him. Morover, he rarely, if ever, acts directly- he plots and schemes unto the end. Now, helping the raid kill Arthas, that's one thing. SwM is right, though: Lich King gone, mext target: Azeroth.--Ragestorm (talk · contr) 02:34, 29 August 2007 (UTC)

This seems the last desperate attempt of the legion to conquer Azeroth. I mean: if the superbad guy has to come to this world by his own person to finish us all (or at least to try) are people of Azeroth more powerful that the Legion? N'Nanz 09:31, 31 August 2007 (UTC)

Well he's being "summoned", doesn't guarantee it's his own idea 100% though he might be willing to go along with the plan for his own reasons. who knows. User:CrazyJack/Sig 13:37, 31 August 2007 (UTC)

Based on information from Netherstorm quests, I'd say he's been in contact with the legion, namely Kil'jaeden (though he wasn't mentioned), for a while now. I think he'd be in on it. --Raze 01:40, 4 September 2007 (UTC)

Uhm, hasn't Kil'jaeden been on Azeroth already? Remember his conversation with Illidan in the night elf forest, probably Fellwood? Why would he need to be summoned if he can travel free between the worlds? Or maybe this was only a vision to Illidan? P.S. Can someone tell me where is the info about Kil'jaeden considering Velen as his arch-nemesis, being like a brother to him before?Dakovski 17:12, 12 September 2007 (UTC)

Kil'jaeden's appearance was just a projection. The info is found in Rise of the Horde. --Ragestorm (talk · contr) 17:42, 12 September 2007 (UTC)

Kil'jaeden wants magic, basically. The Burning Legion all hunger for it. The second reason is because Azeroth was carved, ordered and founded by the Titans, and the ultimate aim of Sargeras and the Burning Legion is to undo all of the Titans' work. The reasoni why members of the Burning Legion need to be summoned into Azeroth is because of the natural wards and barriers placed on the planet by the Titans. Even Sargeras himself was never able to fully manifest himself onto the planet at full power. The barriers need to be weakened by inhabitants already on the planet in order for any creatures from the Twisting Nether to get through. --- Zexx 21:04, 12 September 2007 (UTC)

That's interesting. Are these Titan barriers official or speculation? -- Raze 05:43, 13 September 2007 (UTC)

Official. The summoning rituals and why they must be done are discussed in detail in the War of the Ancients series. --- Zexx 17:45, 15 September 2007 (UTC)

Cheers for that. A pretty important lore detail if you ask me. -- Raze 02:16, 16 September 2007 (UTC)

I've read the WotA trilogy numerous times, and I don't recall any mention of the Titans in relation to why the Legion had to be summoned.

As for Kil'jaeden, like Ragestorm said, it's not his style. Shadows & Light describes him as being very patient and possessing an incredibly long term mindset. If one scheme fails, he'll shrug it off and move to another one.

Another thing to consider is that Kil'jaeden is smart. While he's very confident in his power, he'd most likely realize that a direct assault would be very stupid. Azeroth already chewed up and spat out Sargeras, Archimonde, and dozens of other powerful demons. I'd think he'd see the wisdom in trying something different. --Austin P 01:24, 21 September 2007 (UTC)

Then you probably want to read the manual, which states the Well was placed on Azeroth as a way to both protect Azeroth and nurture it's growth. --- Zexx 05:20, 21 September 2007 (UTC)

Wait, War of the Ancient books or the manual? Some quotes/passages would be helpful for adding info to the article. -- Raze 05:54, 21 September 2007 (UTC)

No, the manual only states that the Well was meant to nurture the races. I just checked. --Austin P 11:37, 21 September 2007 (UTC)

I think all Kil'Jaeden wants to do is to rebuild or reorganise Legion presense in Azeroth. Up to this point, Kil'Jaeden's number 1 concern is the Lich King. We don't know his exact stratergy to conquer Azeroth. So far, the entire World Tree thing appears to be Archimonde's idea. --Invin Dranoel 15:08, 2 October 2007 (UTC)

Think subjectively guys. If I'm Kil'jaeden, my first priority is to get The World Tree's power, just like Archimonde. After then, everything (taking care of Illidan, Lich King, Azeroth, etc.) will be very easy (because of my power). -- Malygos 15:24, 8 November 2007 (UTC)

Why is KIl'jaeden's first priority to get the World Tree? --Ragestorm (talk · contr) 15:44, 8 November 2007 (UTC)

POWER!! That's all what the demons want. Don't say Kil'jaeden is not power-hungry. He may seem so (he could control his emotion well and is a good lier afterall -Kil'jaeden THE DECEIVER-), but remember why he received Sargeras' offer (and what he offered). And as I said, with great power, he could do almost everything he wants. -- Malygos 16:07, 25 November 2007 (UTC)

That makes sense. Considering the fact that Archimonde is no longer around, there are not much resistance against him for the World Tree other than the Alliance/Horde who, at the moment, are spread pretty thin throughout Azeroth and Outland. But in my opinion, his target is Arthas. He has been trying to get rid of the Lich King since The Frozen Throne and I don't see any reason why he would turn his attention elsewhere. --Invin Dranoel 16:44, 25 November 2007 (UTC)

If Kil'jaeden were really smart he would wait till the greatest war between the scourge and mortal races of azeroth was over then summon to Azeroth and hit them both in the middle of war or while they are weak.Geeko 19:21, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

What will happen when/if Kil'jaeden dies?

If we are gonna fight and kill Kil'jaeden on the Sunwell Plateau, what will happen? With most of the brains in the Legion eradicated, the organization will stand leaderless. Sargeras, Archimonde, Tichondrius, Anetheron, Mannoroth and Magtheridon are already lost, and if the Legion looses Kil'jaeden aswell, there will be problems. Mephistroth and Azgalor remains, but I doubt any of them are able to lead the Burning Legion by themselves.
So if you ask me, the Burning Legion will die with Kil'jaeden. This would summarize the expansion quite good, making us players stop the Burning Crusade once and for alll! And when the Burning Legion is destroyed, we will move on to the Scourge. Very logical. What do you think? --Odolwa 20:54, 1 October 2007 (UTC)

The demons will still exist, but I think that they'd cease to become a threat to the whole universe. Likely, the remaining members would fracture, and go their own ways. The demon lieutanants would also fight among themselves, leading to futher decimation of their ranks.--Austin P 23:42, 1 October 2007 (UTC)

Aside from the fact that Azgalor and Mephistroth are still out there, there are probably a number of high-ranking eredar we don't even know about. Sargeras's status is totally unknown. And, just because we fight Kil'jaeden in Sunwell Plateau, that doesn't mean he dies. -_Ragestorm (talk · contr) 00:04, 2 October 2007 (UTC)

It will probably be a scenario similar to the one when Aegwynn defeated Sargeras. Kil'jaeden's corporeal form will be destroyed, and his spirit banished somewhere. It would make little sense if Kil'jaeden survived, since the whole meaning of the expansion is to destroy the Burning Legion once and for all. I doubt there's any Eredar around with the power alike of Kil'jaeden and Archimonde, they (along with Velen) were the ones being offered the blessing of Sargeras.
And don't forget what our Draenei friends tells us when we click on them: "The Legion's end draws near.." ;) --Odolwa 01:09, 2 October 2007 (UTC)

The destruction of Kil'Jaeden could be a bad thing. Without a capable leader to rein in the chaotic Burning Legion, the demons would end up fighting their own. Demonic In-Fighting, coupled with extremely chaotic nature of their magic, could created more troubles and dangers for the universe. With Kil'Jaeden around, at least there is someone to manage and organise the Legion. With an all out brawl within the demon's ranks may be more destructive than a Legion with Kil'Jaeden in control. --Invin Dranoel 03:39, 2 October 2007 (UTC)

Did I miss something? who said the point of this expansion was to destroy the Burning Legion? --Ragestorm (talk · contr) 13:27, 2 October 2007 (UTC)

The title Burning Crusade refers to the process in which Sargeras wants to destroy the univserse so he can remake it. If this Crusade is to ever stop, we will have to destroy the Burning Legion, and to do that, Kil'jaeden must die. --Odolwa 13:31, 2 October 2007 (UTC)

But Kil'jaeden will be fought in Wrath of the Lich King, not Burning Crusade. --Ragestorm (talk · contr) 13:34, 2 October 2007 (UTC)

No? Sunwell Plateau will be the last instance implemented in World of Warcraft: The Burning Crusade. It will be released before World of Warcraft: Wrath of the Lich King --Odolwa 13:39, 2 October 2007 (UTC)

Ah. To be technical, though, the title could just refer to the fact that the Legion has reared its head again, and Azeroth isn't as safe as we thought. No way to assume that that's what the title means. --Ragestorm (talk · contr) 13:40, 2 October 2007 (UTC)

Point taken. Though it would at least make sense since it would follow a pattern that the expansions seem to have. In Wrath of the Lich King, our goal will be to destroy the Scourge and vanquish the Lich King. In Burning Crusade our goal have been to destroy the Burning Legion and vanquish Kil'jaeden. But as you said, it's discussable.--Odolwa 15:24, 2 October 2007 (UTC)

Continue on a usertalk- this is non-editorial.--Ragestorm (talk · contr) 18:17, 2 October 2007 (UTC)

Well, for the record, the description for the Burning Crusade Cinematic Intro on the official WOW site says "And beyond the Dark Portal, an ancient enemy is awaiting the final showdown, the battle that will change the face of the world... forever." They say "final showdown", but I imagine they put it there to make it sound cool, not to literally mean that the Burning Legion will cease to be a threat to Azeroth once the Outland Campaigns are finished.--Austin P 02:44, 3 October 2007 (UTC)

And for another FYI, they said that they're willing to kill Arthas, but that they don't want to totally kill the Lich King due to his role in the story.--Austin P 02:45, 3 October 2007 (UTC)

Illidan has just as big a role as the Lich King, and they didn't have much guilty conscience when they finished him off. I don't buy it. --Odolwa 10:59, 3 October 2007 (UTC)

As of Naxx and TBC, many important lore characters from the Warcraft RTS are suggested to have been killed off. Though none have been "locked down" or confirmed in the Warcraft Storyline, it doesn't look good.--Invin Dranoel 14:23, 3 October 2007 (UTC)

True Intention?

I'm quite confused with Kil'jaeden's act. You know, he ordered Archimonde to invade Azeroth (I've seen this statement somewhere). But why? He certainly have known that Archimonde will drain World Tree's power for himself, then he'll be stronger than him. With this, he'll took control of the Legion and possibly kill Kil'jaeden. Even if Archimonde did it secretly, Kil'jaeden will certainly relize it before it's to late as his plan took quite long time and Kil'jaeden is certainly very smart. Yet, Kil'jaeden still let Archimonde go. May be he has predicted that Azeroth would be capable to defeat him? And he accused Illidan that he made this invasion failed? -- Malygos 15:55, 8 November 2007 (UTC)

Kil'jaeden has always been more powerful than Archimone, and still he hasn't killed Archimonde. One can assume that the both of them had a rather high loyalty towards each other, and Kil'jaeden was probably not seeing Archimonde as a threat. They are different: Kil'jaeden was scheming and bringing new recruits into the Legion, while Archimonde lead their armies. They lived in symbiosis with each other.--Odolwa 17:54, 8 November 2007 (UTC)

Odolwa is correct. Archimonde and Kil'jaeden aren't the typical villanous henchmen, vying for their master's favor. They serve different functions and have been comrades for over 25,000 years. Though Kil'jaeden is more powerful and smarter than Archimonde, making his rank within the Legion slightly higher, he didn't exactly order Archimonde to invade- there was definetly cooperative planning. It is not clear whether Archimonde's assault on the World Tree was part of the plan, though Kil'jaeden would probably have wanted the source of the Kaldorei's power eliminated. --Ragestorm (talk · contr) 05:42, 9 November 2007 (UTC)

If I remember correctly, Archimonde and Kil'jaeden still seemed rather friendly during Rise of the Horde, so I doubt either would actually attempt to destroy the other.

The ogrila has knowledge in the arts of " banishing demons". Perhaps we will summon a huge demon gate like those in the daily quests and banish him awy. When Archimonde was killed the Night elfs lost their immortality. perhaps the sunwell will completly destroy him from the last pice of magic

A thought on Kil'jaeden's command...

Kil'jaeden's command to Illidan was "Destroy the Frozen Throne." This is exactly what Arthas did. Could this possibly explain why Kil'jaeden has (supposedly) let Illidan off the hook? --Paulus 06:05, 10 December 2007 (UTC)

Apart from the fact that Illidan technically didn't, and that Ner'zhul is now even harder to destroy, you raise a good point. We also know that Kil'jaeden's favored method of dealing with problems is the somewhat more economical "one last chance, at my mercy" approach, so it makes sense. --Ragestorm (talk · contr) 18:38, 10 December 2007 (UTC)

Another thought has occurred to me: Despite being supposedly free from the Burning Legion, the Lich King is still trying to wipe out all life on Azeroth, the same goal that the Burning Legion strives for. Perhaps Kil'jaeden doesn't mind at all that Arthas won that battle. To paraphrase Archimonde, "Despite his failure, he may still prove useful to us." --Paulus 17:35, 29 December 2007 (UTC)

Summoned Into Azeroth

Well we are supposed to fight a twisted abomination of Kil'jaeden who is in transit, What about the events in WC3? When Kil'jaeden appeared to Illidan he appeared VERY Much corporeal and intact, Why is this? Was he ACTUALLY Summoned into Azeroth? But chose to go back to the Nether? Why is he being re-summoned? Wasn't here there before Hyjal? --Shiniki 18:13, 31 January 2008 (UTC)

Sunwell

Checked out his death animation and it has him get pulled back into the portal and the thing we loot is some necklace he had on that when he 'dies'. The necklace gets ripped off and floats above him with him trying to grab it back before getting pulled in. So basically all we do is push him back rather then kill him it seems which makes sense. The necklace itself isn't on him till after his 'birth' animation so whatever it is must also be what he was using to enter Azeroth. Leviathon 06:30, 9 February 2008 (UTC)

Where can you see his death animation? I don't see him on the Model Viewer. Zentyr 09:53, 9 February 2008 (UTC)