If you wish to discuss the subject itself, please use Talk:Kael'thas Sunstrider/Analysis.
Non-editorial comments made here should be moved to the Analysis page.
- Past discussions moved to Talk:Kael'thas Sunstrider/Archive1
Does Kil'jaeden count as a relative? I don't think he should be listed as one, but I'd rather not edit the article until I find out more opinions on the matter... - Aladara 19:14, 29 September 2007 (UTC)
- No, I think that would be too much of a stretch, especially given how little info we have. 19:37, 29 September 2007 (UTC)
- Agreed, thanks for making the change! - Aladara 23:17, 29 September 2007 (UTC)
Should we include Eldin Sunstrider as a possible relative?We have little informatio on this but i don't think it would be a mistake.Opinions?(Marakanis)
- Never heard of him... is he a younger brother? - Aladara 15:56, 30 September 2007 (UTC)
- It's a random name for Blood Mage in WC3TFT. I think it's not so necessary. --N'Nanz 16:13, 30 September 2007 (UTC)
Does the random names from Warcraft III actually represent a real person? I have always had the feeling they were just random names, with no support from the lore. --Odolwa 21:04, 30 September 2007 (UTC)
- We don't include them as lore characters, but they can be listed on their "type" pages. 21:22, 30 September 2007 (UTC)
I heard someone say somewhere he had (or has) a wife. Is this true? Mr.X8 01:49, 2 October 2007 (UTC)
- I've never heard that said and it isn't mentioned in the article at all, so I'm going to go with "no". - Aladara 02:32, 2 October 2007 (UTC)
I was reading somewhere that Sylvanas is his cousin. Both are from Silvermoon originally, so it's likely they knew each other at some point, but are they related? Gutsdozer (talk) 23:08, 2 July 2008 (UTC)
I should probably just get up the guts to start editing things myself, but better safe than sorry... is this section *really* necessary? It makes no sense at all and on top of that is incredibly poorly worded and formatted. I'd rather not start an editing war on accident, so I figured I'd just ask first... - Aladara 21:50, 17 October 2007 (UTC)
Semirg's speculation Edit
Kael's pact with the burning Legion is an odd one. Many things fall into place shortly Before/After his joining. The Scryers break away from Kael and the Naaru comes into the possesion of the Hordes Blood Elfs. Siphoning power from the Naaru the Blood Elfs belive they are stealing power. But the Naaru of Shattrath show no hate towards these Blood Knights despite what they do to their own brother. Also no Escape, Rescue, or struggle is made to or against the Naaru of Silvermoon City. It may be possible that Kael seeing his people were dying made a pact with A'dal asking him to save his people. In return Kael joins the Legion as a double agent getting close to the legions leader so he can leak information or destory the leaders. The Blood Knights in the meanwhile continue to "steal" The power and what was once the arcane enegry in the Blood Elf body is now Divine energy. Changing the resource of magic to something that wont corrupt them and slowly save the Blood Elf race.—The preceding unsigned comment was added by Semirg (talk • contr).
- Entirely possible, and I quite like the idea, but I dislike such lengthy analyses in the articles, particularly when there is little, even in the way of hearsay, to support. -- (talk · contr) 01:22, 18 October 2007 (UTC)
Maybe Kael eventually broke the pact and that's why u get to attack his base(Marakanis 15:30, 20 October 2007 (UTC))
- As do I, since he's the focus of that image.
04:35, 2 November 2007 (UTC)
- I think the current might be fanart, unless someone else can find it somewhere. That said, I also prefer the Samwise. --Sky (t · c · w) 04:38, 2 November 2007 (UTC)
- Not fanart. it's part of the image that includes Illidan, Vashj, and Akama blizz used at blizzcon. Regardless i think the samwise was more appropriate.Warthok 05:09, 2 November 2007 (UTC)
- I think the current might be fanart, unless someone else can find it somewhere. That said, I also prefer the Samwise. --Sky (t · c · w) 04:38, 2 November 2007 (UTC)
- The reason I thought to replace it was because the Samwise image was also frequently used as just a generic blood mage. I had thought the new image would be better suited for a number of reasons, because it's more recent, because it's specifically Kael and no one else, and because it's much darker and as such better represents Kael's current stage of character progression. Though I seem to be the only one that thinks so. Dylan Bissel 15:33, 4 November 2007 (UTC)
- The name of the samewise artwork is "Blood Mage", but it is officially specifically of Kael'thas (Manual of Monsters). It is called Blood Mage for the main reason that Kael'Thas was the very first Blood Mage. It is not a "generic individual". The new image is far too abstract for an infobox image.Baggins 16:49, 4 November 2007 (UTC)
- I'm aware of the Manual of Monsters, however the image first introduced as just generic blood mage art (on the Frozen Throne website), and then titled "Blood Mage" on Samwise's personal site. And it's kind of odd, if Didier was in fact specifically doing art of Kael that he wouldn't say so. In any other case I'm aware of that he did art for specific characters he has. The image was likely used in the Manual of Monsters only because no art existed at the time of Kael.
- Also, I'm curious what you mean by abstract.Dylan Bissel 18:31, 4 November 2007 (UTC)
-  If an image is the headline image of on a character article in the trump card of all lore sources, then it typically means that it's of the individual in question.
- I don't think the other image is abstract, I think just think it's not good enough for the head of the article- it's not a detailed portrait, it wasn't meant to be viewed at so close a range-- (talk · contr) 21:32, 4 November 2007 (UTC)
- Like I said, I do realize that the image has been used as an image of Kael, however it's also been used as an image of a generic blood mage. Since there was no discernible difference between the two in Frozen Throne it largely renders the image viable for either use. I had been asking Baggins about the image being abstract.
- I'm not trying to fight you guys on this or anything, I'd just like to understand the reasons behind your choices so I can better work around them in the future. Dylan Bissel 23:35, 4 November 2007 (UTC)
- Technically, it hasn't really been used as a generic "Blood Mage" as officially we have really only encountered one blood mage in the games.(not counting the random blood mages in the multiplayer games). Truth be told Kael is the representive "generic blood mage".Baggins 03:15, 11 November 2007 (UTC)
- Secondly, I'd like to point out that Warcraft Encyclopedia is not the "trump card of all warcraft sources" its just "another source" actually part of the History of Warcraft, it is a source that is rarely updated mind you). Going by what Metzen has said in interviews all the sources are generally equal, although what goes on inside the games themselves is probably the highest level.Baggins 03:18, 11 November 2007 (UTC)
"De jure"? Edit
My edit comment got cut off, but what I meant to say there was that someone apparently had "du jour" mixed up with "de facto" and came up with "de jure." It is now fixed.
Not confirmed Kael'thas Edit
Is there a source confirming that this image is Kael'thas if not it doesn't need to be in the article.
Which of course doesn't confirm its Kael'thas, all it states is the name of the picture is "interrogation" it could be any blood elf blood mage interrogating what looks like a jungle troll.Baggins 21:10, 20 December 2007 (UTC)
- I'm not suggesting it is. It was in the article and I removed it, it already had the text under it, and maybe someone who added it or someone else knows of an article in the RPG or other official sources with Kael'thas mentioned and the image on the same page, which would comforme it, and in that case it won't matter it is named Interrogation at SotS. Zakolj 21:46, 20 December 2007 (UTC)
- The image is in the A&HC, however its just an article discussing all blood elves.Baggins 21:47, 20 December 2007 (UTC)
- It looks like a bound orc screaming for mercy to me; which would fit with the "interrogation" theme. ---- Vorbis Talk Contribs 15:43, 21 December 2007 (UTC)
- It's a ghoul. Note the tuft of hair on the back of its head, the long tongue, the large lower jaw, and the bony protrusions on its back. Egrem 21:30, 10 February 2008 (UTC)
- Point of note ghouls don't usually have 'a tuft' of hair on the back of their heads (they are usually portrayed with full hair, although balding towards the middle), especially not a pony tail. Nor do they usually have tongues (I don't remember any image of them having tongues, let alone a 'long tongue'). As for bony back that can describe quite a few things.Baggins 06:38, 15 February 2008 (UTC)
I also doubt the image would be called interrogation if that was a ghoul. You really can;t interrogate a undead zombie. Though on the tongue thing in warcraft 3 ghouls had very long tongues. Leviathon 06:56, 15 February 2008 (UTC)
- While they did have tongues in Warcraft III, I don't remember it sticking out of their mouth, nor being that long. The longest was in concept art for the game as far as I remember.Baggins 07:04, 15 February 2008 (UTC)
I would say that it looks like either an orc, or a jungle troll, with its hands bound behind its back, and squatting on the ground in front of that blood elf. But it most certainly is not of Kael'thas and a naga. --Mesethusela 00:39, 30 March 2008 (UTC)
- It may be a ghoul, but why talk to one?--
01:05, 30 March 2008 (UTC)
- To figure out what people really taste like? --Super Bhaal 04:51, 30 March 2008 (UTC)
From a 25-Man Raid to a 5-Man Dungeon...HmmEdit
I'm admittedly a little confused here. Kael'thas is supposed to be the big man in the TK raid (which I have yet to do...*grumble*), but they're knocking him down to a 5-man. My question is how - unless the battle against him in the TK raid weakened him so much that he needed to be revived with this fel crystal thing which reduces his powers to a 5-man group... *shrug* --Joshmaul 21:01, 20 December 2007 (UTC)
I think what actually happened was he was severely weakened after his defeat at Tempest Keep, and he would be dead by now if it weren't for the crystal. It's some sort of life support, without it he'll probably die. Zentyr 10:32, 21 December 2007 (UTC)
Eh actually we don't know for sure if we'll even get to fight him , and if we will get to fight him he'll probably appear at the 25 man wing of the instance where Kil will get summoned , also if he got weakened when he was almost killed then I guess he'll get healed back to full health again ...my opinion (Marakanis 15:32, 21 December 2007 (UTC))
Oh sorry I didn't see the Sunwell Plateau article , sorry(Marakanis 15:39, 21 December 2007 (UTC))
- Note that instance size and level does not always (well, ever) represent actual power. Van Cleef is barely over level 20, yet he's on par with many a level 60 boss.
17:51, 24 December 2007 (UTC)
- In what way, Kirkburn? --Joshmaul 07:47, 27 December 2007 (UTC)
- Master Mathias Shaw (a level 62 assassin) says something to the effect of VanCleef being one of the most dangerous men he's ever known. In the RPG, VanCleef is the same level as Jaina. I think it's safe to say that VanCleef is a fairly high-end character, lore-wise, but he was placed at the level he was for gameplay reasons (since you need some cool opponents before the endgame). Egrem 21:30, 10 February 2008 (UTC)
Really IS nutsEdit
Kaplan says: "This time he really IS nuts"... I guess this means Kael is, finally, beyond any kind of redemption, and will eventually end up killed in his own homeland as a lackey of the Legion. That's very sad indeed... s-windstalker 03:56, 24 December 2007 (UTC)
My confidence in the lore-department is now finally completely broken. Who knows what more loved, former-good, characters will end up mercilessly slaughtered at the hand of us players?--Odolwa 11:39, 24 December 2007 (UTC)
Well, players can kill him in game, but he is not actually killed in lore. It makes the game more fun to see all the heroes from previous Warcraft games, and also to kill them. But the P.C.'s dont really exist in lore. In a nutshell, Kael'thas is as he was before he was 'Killed' by any players. Non-existent people cant kill him. -Velsyarn
- I don't know, it looks like the developers are getting more of a say in what happens with the lore than creative development. :/ --Super Bhaal 14:46, 24 December 2007 (UTC)
- Making good lore =/= keeping characters alive. People die. 17:46, 24 December 2007 (UTC)
- Point of note Kael & his first blood elves was considered nuts even before we first saw him in Lordaeron in TFT, ;). Some of the last remaining high elves living there were totally against his burning of forests in what is now Ghostlands.
- The surviving elves frighten me, Melena. They no longer call themselves high elves. You remember Prince Kael’Thas? He leads the elves now, being the last elf of noble birth. He calls his people “blood elves,” supposedly in homage of the dead. I am glad they no longer think of themselves as high elves, for they certainly are not. Melena, they plan to raze the forest - all of it! “We will not let the Scourge enjoy their plunder!” declares Kael’Thas. Travesty! I will try to stop this folly, but I doubt that I will be successful. These blood elves are crazed, manic, inflamed by vengeance and fueled by this unnamable need that seethes within our consciousness. They will go on with their plans despite my efforts. They may even try to slay me. Yet I will do what I can. ( )
- --Baggins 20:20, 24 December 2007 (UTC)
I don't know about you but I STILL think he has a chance of redeeming himself ... or at least stay alive a little more . BTW Baggins who's the character that is talking to "Melena" ?(Marakanis 00:53, 28 December 2007 (UTC))
Can I ask where and when Kael found these three green spheres and what they represent? Simple catalizers of power or are they the prison of some "devils" like the big green crystals with eyes back at Silvermoon? (someone screamed from the kitchen that they may probably be "imps'in'a'ball", /lol) -- Ravenore , the Necroshadowmancer 03:32, 1 January 2008 (UTC)
- They are Verdant Spheres.-- 21:20, 2 January 2008 (UTC)
- His name is Ramao, Marakanis. ...and judging from Brann's account he was actually burned alive, turned into a charred skeleton by the blood elves before he could even send the letter off.Baggins 06:11, 3 January 2008 (UTC)
He uses demonic magic. He allied with a race that wants to obliterate the living. Ramao has got it right, if you ask me. Kael'thas and the Blood Elves were a disater waiting to happen. Warchiefthrall 22:05, 17 February 2008 (UTC)
Your idea makes sense Warchiefthrall, but Kael is only doing this to protect the Blood Elves. He still thinks himself king and wants the best for his people. He is doing a noble deed, through very dark acts. The Blood Elves need a source of magic, and they were promised one from Illidan. The problem is that Illidan has gone insane, and Kael can't go back empty handed. So he did the only action that seemed right, and joined the Legion. - —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Velsyarn (talk • contr).
I want to say that look at all the circumstances Kael has died under. He dies and shatters like glass. Honestly this makes no sense, i personally believe this to be an image. Then using Kil'jaeden he has him create a replica of his body but corrupted. Kael continues his work to summon kiljaedan. But why in order to use Kiljae to kill the lich king. IN all honesty Kael has done everything he has for the good of his peope. His true purpose has been to kill the Lich Imo which is why at the start of BC all the lich kings powers were gone. Kael cast the very spell you were sent to stop but in truth he did cast it and is now preparing to fight with the Lich king himself. - —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Aziox (talk • contr).
Yes, before allying with Kil'jaeden, Kael was doing everything for the good of his people. But not now. Since becoming part of the Burning Legion he no longer serves his people. And the idea of using fel magic makes sense to me. Kael became a complete addict under it, and this was a perfect way of Kil'jaeden corrupting him. Simple! Warchiefthrall (talk) 09:24, 7 June 2008 (UTC)
Kael is like Warcraft's version of Anakin Skywalker from Star Wars (Same with Arthas). They both try to do what's right, then become totally evil. Now all we need is for him to redeem himself, possibly in the Lich King raid encounter (maybe). Talk Contribs 00:45, 22 April 2009 (UTC)
King Kael'thas? Edit
I noticed that his title is "the Sun King" yet it still refers to him as "Prince Kael'thas." Should this be edited so he is "King Kael'thas"? Forgive me if this has been asked before. Zentyr 21:16, 2 January 2008 (UTC)
If I understand things correctly, Kael'thas is a de facto king of the Blood Elves. It's just that he havn't yet gone through the crowning proceduares required in order to call himself king. "Sun King" is probably a self-proclaimed title.--Odolwa 15:09, 3 January 2008 (UTC)
- The Horde-affiliated blood elves refer to him as Prince Kael'thas...and for some reason, so do a few of Kael's minions (Ambassador Solannas, Warden Mellichar, etc.) I think the "Sun King" bit is something that Kael'thas calls himself, sort of like Thermaplugg calling himself King of Gnomeregan. Ego and all that. As far as I'm aware, he remains uncrowned - officially, anyway. --Joshmaul 09:22, 7 January 2008 (UTC)
Regarding the Two Instances He's In Edit
I have a question: Is Kael'thas the only boss that appears in two instances? Actually, let me rephrase that: Is he the only boss you can FIGHT in two instances? I know Nefarian's human form appears in UBRS, but you can't actually fight him until BWL. I thought there might have been another, but I'm not sure; I think Kael's also the only one who appears in a normal (well, heroic version of a normal) instance as well as a raid instance. Can anyone confirm or deny? --Joshmaul 14:57, 18 January 2008 (UTC)
Sign your posts. So Kael'thas does only appear in the Heroic version of Magister's Terrace? :S Sound strange to me.--Odolwa 12:37, 19 January 2008 (UTC)
He might appears only in Heroic version.--13:10, 19 January 2008 (UTC)
Blah, forgot to sign that time. Apologies. Yes, right now he is only in the Heroic mode. Zentyr 15:28, 21 January 2008 (UTC)
- MMO-Champion.com reports him being in the normal mode as well (on the 2.4 PTR). Egrem 21:30, 10 February 2008 (UTC)
Picture from the Sunwell Edit
I just found this picture of Kael'thas in the Magister's Terrace on Curse.com, should I fit this into the article somewhere? Zentyr 09:34, 9 February 2008 (UTC)
- I think the more important question is, "should I give him a sandwich?". --Super Bhaal 16:01, 9 February 2008 (UTC)
- Who me? ...Oh, yeah he needs to eat more.-- 16:35, 9 February 2008 (UTC)
- Does anyone other than me think this new appearance of Kael'thas screams "Wretched"? --Joshmaul 18:02, 9 February 2008 (UTC)
- I do. --Super Bhaal 18:20, 9 February 2008 (UTC)
- Do you think this could be the final stage in the evolution the blood elves seem to be undergoing? Monster Guide implied that they were slowly physically evolving from the high elves, much like the high elves evolved from the night elves. I'm well aware this theory doesn't have much foundation, but the thought recently occured to me. It looks to me, like Joshmaul said, that Kael has degenerated into one of the Wretched ( I don't know how his addiction was in comparison to that of the other high and blood elves ), or he was ressurected by some unholy means, or perhaps a really big mana crystal. Thoughts? --Super Bhaal 20:06, 9 February 2008 (UTC)
- Does anyone other than me think this new appearance of Kael'thas screams "Wretched"? --Joshmaul 18:02, 9 February 2008 (UTC)
The evolutionary step seems to more be the Fel Elves as they have horns and wings. Kael just seems to have went the way of the Wretched to get all the power he can and it may also be what Kil'Jaeden made him do. Leviathon 20:11, 9 February 2008 (UTC)
I'm guessing that the Silvermoon Elves on Azeroth won't "evolve" any further than the green eyes. When Kael comes back, Regent Lord Theron will most likely want to distance himself from Kael'thas to show the rest of the Horde they're not with him. That would mean stopping the Fel Magic. Plus, the Sunwell is being reignited. Zentyr 22:15, 9 February 2008 (UTC)
Oooh.That`d be awsome if he came back in a burning legion x-pac looking like Illadin exept a Blood Elf!Anyways none of the azeroth Blood Elves want anything to do with him now!
- Yes, he looks like a Wretched now, complete with pasty skin, emaciation, and a crystal embedded in his skin. Did Blizzard ever give any sort of explanation of why the Wretched have crystals in their skin? I'd guess that they're probably arcane/fel crystals, and inserted directly into the skin in much the same way a drug might be injected. I would guess that the "Fel Elves" are the evolutions, being similar to the satyr, in a way, with horns and wings.
- Oh, and, IIRC, datamined images aren't supposed to be in wowwiki articles. :/ Suzaku 00:17, 10 February 2008 (UTC)
I've never read anything about the Wretched crystals, but we should note they their crystals are blue. Kael's is green, so are his eyes. He's like a Fel-Wretched. Zentyr 04:53, 10 February 2008 (UTC)
- There are now Wretched skins with green crystals and eyes. Suzaku 07:01, 10 February 2008 (UTC)
- I think "felsworn" is a much more accurate term than "evolved." -- Dark T Zeratul 05:02, 10 February 2008 (UTC)
- He doesn't seem very "fel-sworn" to me. After all, individuals like Gul'dan and Ner'zhul practically steeped themselves in fel energies and they were never known to exhibit fel-sworn traits. --Super Bhaal 05:26, 10 February 2008 (UTC)
It's very likely Kil'jaeden played some part in how he and the fel elves look. Leviathon 05:31, 10 February 2008 (UTC)
- Except Kael looks like the Wretched, not like the "fel elves", and the Wretched made themselves look the way they do. *shrug* We'll find out soon enough. Suzaku 07:01, 10 February 2008 (UTC)
- You could open the patch-3 MPQ in the enUS folder (with programs like Mywarcraftstudio) and look at the voice files and see what he(and other bosses for that matter) say to get a idea maybe. I wanted to do that but have been unable to get to it. Leviathon 07:25, 10 February 2008 (UTC)
- I already checked. None of the dialogue files are in the MPQ. Just the basic audio for the various mobs. -- Dark T Zeratul 07:37, 10 February 2008 (UTC)
Make sure your opening the right MPQ file as one has the normal sounds and another has the dialogue. Unless Blizz is waiting to add the dialogue till later in the PTR which would explain why the patch was only 135 MB. Check the patch-3 MPQ and the MPQ's inside the folder thats inside the Data folder. Leviathon 07:54, 10 February 2008 (UTC)
- It'll probably be patched in later; the only audio was incidental music for the instances, a variation on the Silvermoon theme that's probably used in Quel'Danas, doodad noises, and general battle sounds for all the new mobs. -- 10:32, 10 February 2008 (UTC)
Fel Elf? Something new from the patch I don't know about? Any pictures? User:Xavius
- I think that one's my fault.
- Do you think this could be the final stage in the evolution the blood elves seem to be undergoing? --Me.
- The evolutionary step seems to more be the Fel Elves as they have horns and wings. --Leviathon. --Super Bhaal 18:48, 10 February 2008 (UTC)
Yes, but what are Fel Elves? User:Xavius
- Very corrupted Blood Elves that serve Kael and the Legion. Leviathon 20:58, 10 February 2008 (UTC)
Yeah, the red-skinned male Fel Elves remind me of Dremora from the Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion. Zentyr 08:37, 11 February 2008 (UTC)
New mobs from the patch? Are they editable with the model viewer? Anyone got a picture? Sorry if I ask too much, I'm just excited by the new patch. User:Xavius
- ...are those vampire fangs I see? --Super Bhaal 12:37, 11 February 2008 (UTC)
- No they are not just reskinned blood elves, they have an edited model adding horns and spikes to their back.--Gurluas 15:38, 11 February 2008 (UTC)
Oh, missed that. --Xavius, the Satyr Lord 16:19, 11 February 2008 (UTC)
- Actually, I think it's not spikes on their back, but rather feathered wings. It's hard to tell, though. They seem to be referred to as "felbloods" in-game, specifically, "Kael's felbloods", which seems to have something to do with the fel orcs of Outland, as there are a number of quests revolving around their "felblood". Of course, this being the PTR, names are highly subject to change; I recall when the Wretched where called the Winnowed. Suzaku 01:23, 13 February 2008 (UTC)
- Furthering this discussion; I was applying new race icons to several pages when I started wondering: should we therefore classify Kael as both Wretched and Felblood? Furthermore, which icon should he get (neither seems entirely appropriate)... or should he get a totally new one? After all, Kael really is quite a unique being... ---- Vorbis Talk Contribs 11:50, 31 March 2008 (UTC)
- Kael's infobox refers to his race as a "Felbood Elf". To me, however, he looks more like a Wretched than a Felblood. Felbloods have red or white skin with horns on their forehead and small feathered wings on their backs. Kael has decayed, gray skin with no horns or wings. Should this be changed?-- Archmage Rodyn March 31st, 2008 9:16 -5 GMT
- He seems wretched to me, but is more of a race of his own.-- 01:17, 1 April 2008 (UTC)
- Me too. He has no wings nor horns. Change it to wretched? --N'Nanz 12:16, 4 April 2008 (UTC)
- Its even possible that he is undead, since none of those races are confirmed to be kael's actual race, it could be a possibility that he is some strange mixture of all three plus already being a blood elf. Jeqqiman (talk) 05:42, 15 October 2008 (UTC)
Do not make fun of my elven king (My favorite elf)!-- Hordman
Haven't they learned from the past Edit
Okay, lots of speculation ahead: I read somewhere that you'll have to behead kael'thas in the end. Well, I learned from several past bosses, that each of those who literally lost their head got ressurected by the scourge (except for demons)...So...how likely is it that Arthas goes and cleans Kael'thas from the demonic energies and brings him back as a tool of the scourge?--Maibe 18:50, 10 February 2008 (UTC)
- What bosses are you thinking of? Because the Scourge never brought back the likes of Van Cleef, Onyxia, Nefarian, Ossirian the Unscarred, those two guys in Stromgarde, and countless other named NPCs that you had to behead. No, Kael'thas is dead and gone, his semi-tragic tale at an end. -- Dark T Zeratul 21:37, 10 February 2008 (UTC)
Nobody can say for certain what will happen yet(Marakanis 01:13, 11 February 2008 (UTC))
Maybe Maibe (heh) is thinking of Dar'khan? User:Xavius
- Him, Rivendare and a few others...okay....they turned to the scourge while they were alive...but: Would Arthas waste such a chance?--Maibe 14:14, 11 February 2008 (UTC)
- If he was killed by a bunch of level 70s, I doubt Arthas expects him to be much of a match for level 80s. Seems like it would be a waste of time, especially since it would likely involve invading wherever his body is laid to rest. Suzaku 01:34, 13 February 2008 (UTC)
The type of instance he appears in doesn't decide his level of power , Kael might as well be as powerfull as Kel'thuzad or even more as far as we can tell , also he's clearly a good leader in battle as we read in wow history on the official site , I think Kael would be a nice addition for the lich kings army(Marakanis 20:51, 13 February 2008 (UTC))
Speculation Section Edit
Regarding the "Killed in Tempest Keep?" and "Change in Appearance" entries under the "Speculation" heading in Kael's article... what support is there for the idea that he died and was reanimated? Kael himself says he's "beaten but alive" only moments after the battle in Tempest Keep. I think the analogy to Iron Man is a good one (with the crystal in Kael's chest acting like a magical pacemaker), but that would also imply it's there to keep a wounded man alive (not to reanimate a corpse). Egrem 06:02, 15 February 2008 (UTC)
- I'm not sure I agree with Kael being similar to Iron Man, despite the crystal. There is no other kind of life support "system" or such that Iron Man has (IE: The Iron Man suit), or any other real reference at all. The crystal, or something akin to it, keeping him alive is a old fantasy device that can be seen in a number of books and writings. I would say its more akin to a Lich's phylactery than Iron Man, myself. Greymore 20:00, 17 February 2008 (UTC)
- A phylactery allows a lich to return after being destroyed (the lich's soul returns to the phylactery when its body is destroyed, at which point it will either regenerate a new body or possess a nearby corpse, depending on the source). I don't think Kael's crystal can do anything like that... it seems to me that it's only there to keep him alive. Egrem 21:43, 18 February 2008 (UTC)
- I agree that the crystal isn't a phylactery, but what I meant is its more akin to that than a magical pacemaker. Still, my main point was that I don't see any real references towards Iron Man. Greymore 01:27, 21 February 2008 (UTC)
Well, I think the crystal is to keep him alive. His Verdant Sphere didn't resurrect him because players took it to Shattrath. That's why he only has two. He probably stabbed himself with the crystal to live longer. If not for the crystal, he would have died. That's just my idea, anyway. Zentyr 19:21, 22 February 2008 (UTC)
I think the crystal has been in Kael for a very long time. If you look at his original character model, you can see it jutting out from under his robe. Also, there's a green glow that emanates from it which you can see on his neck. I don't think Blizz will explain what it's for exactly or how long it's been there other than saying Kael relied on fel magics while under Illidan's command. --Lemons 15:57, 24 March 2008 (UTC)
- The glow on the neck of his original model is probably supposed to be from the green jewel at the top of his robe. There's no way that huge crystal was hidden under there... it sticks out much too far. Egrem 20:13, 25 March 2008 (UTC)
- I still maintain that it was there before his defeat in Tempest Keep. It does protrude further now that Blizzard has revealed the crystal, but his robe on the original character design really indicates to me that it was there before. Best I can do with the model viewer, but I don't seem to be able to link this without hitting the spam filter... h1.ripway.com/lemons/kaelthas_crystal.jpg --Lemons 16:10, 2 April 2008 (UTC)
- Looks like the crystal is there to me. The glow is coming from underneath his collar and not from the gem on his shirt. Really creepy either way...--Blayaden 14:33, 4 April 2008 (UTC)
I noticed that Kael is no longer listed under the leaders of the Illidari on the Illidari page yet is still listed as an Illidari in the "Past and present major Warcraft Universe characters" Box. --Sairez
- As we find out in Patch 2.4, Kael was never actually part of Illidan's forces... he only used him as a pawn in his own games. Therefore he was removed from the list in everything to do with Illidan. Of course, he was a leader, and the listing as Illidari in "Past + Present Warcraft Characters" is down to basically him being part of them during his lifespan. FDX 20:29, 25 March 2008 (UTC)
Events between Tempest Keep and Magisters' TerraceEdit
While it's not explained in a clear and concise manner anywhere, there are a few things that are explained, and I'll try and combine them together into a single summary.
After being defeated by the combined might of Aldor and Scryer forces in Tempest Keep, Kael was left for dead and rescued by Priestess Delrissa. Delrissa was likely responsible for bringing him back from the brink of death, and may have implanted the fel crystal in his chest. At roughly this time, some of his followers apparantly fled Outland through the Dark Portal, while his most loyal followers remained at the Throne of Kil'jaeden and become felblood initiates. Shortly thereafter, Kael issued his proclamation to those in Shattrath, and returned to Azeroth with a number of Burning Legion demons, his loyal Dawnblade and Sunblade blood elves, the Shadowsword felbloods, as well as some Wretched and Darkspine naga, in order to begin making preperations for the summoning of Kil'jaeden. The Shadowsword infiltrated Silvermoon City and captured M'uru, taking him to the Sunwell Plateau where his energies are drawn out to help power the Isle of Quel'Danas. Kael and his forces captured Anveena and began preparing the Sunwell for the summoning (presumably to the extent that Kil'jaeden would be able to issue commands through the portal to his followers), and Kael seemingly retreated into the Grand Magisters' Asylum of the Magisters' Terrace, where he is protected by a number of loyal followers including Sunblade blood elves, Wretched, a Felblood, Burning Legion demons, and even some Coilskar naga, and Ethereum smugglers. Suzaku 02:22, 11 April 2008 (UTC)
- Lemme clear some of it up: After his defeat in tempest keep he apparently fell into a pit, lodging that crystal in his chest, Priestess Delrissa arived just in time and saved his life before he was killed by his wounds. --Whitedragon254 (talk) 23:55, 11 August 2008 (UTC)
Blood Elf or Felblood Elf Edit
Not so long ago a new term has been introduced into World of Warcraft: Felblood Elf. Shouldn't be Kael marked as one, since he's working with Kil'jaeden? --Shargas the Naga 15:24, 22 April 2008 (UTC)
Or Wretched? This page classified him as Blood Elf, but in one subsection it says he had became a Wretched. On the Magister Terrace strategy page, it says he is a Felbood Elf. It is so confusing. WakemanCK 08:33, 27 April 2008 (UTC)
This is a general lore-article on Kael'thas Sunstrider. Him being transformed into Felblood Elf is a recent event that has only taken place in WoW. So it would be wrong to give him an overall-classification as Felblood Elf. In the article Kael'thas Sunstrider (Magisters' Terrace tactics) on the other hand, he is to be classed as Felblood Elf.--WoWWiki-Odolwa 19:40, 28 April 2008 (UTC)
He was never turned into a felblood. He shows none of the physical traits. If anything he is a wretched or even undead. --Felfanatic
I think that the "level" element from the infobox should be removed and only kept on the "tactics" pages. After all, it's a lore page and in my opinion should be done for all characters that has different lore and tactics pages.Dakovski 06:19, 28 April 2008 (UTC)
Good point! I will have it done.--WoWWiki-Odolwa 18:50, 28 April 2008 (UTC)
Three orbs? Edit
If you look at the picture of kael summoning kil'jaeden (The one blizzard made for patch 2.4) he has THREE orbs still. Anyone else find that a little weird? ----Whitedragon254 (talk) 16:17, 7 June 2008 (UTC)
- Yeah, it was a mistake on the part of the artist. He should only have two. -- Dark T Zeratul (talk) 23:04, 7 June 2008 (UTC)
What exactly are those 3 orbs that are floating around him? I've looked for an explanation around the internet, and maybe I just missed it, but I can't find out what they are. Can anyone explain for me? Might be able to help me figure out why the artist was wrong in his drawing of 3 instead of 2 orbs also. jclipps (talk) 04:36, 13 March 2009 (UTC)
- Verdant Sphere. Like White and Dark say, Kael should have had two orbs instead of three (as the link states one of his spheres was a quest item). I guess now is the time for me to make a pointless joke about them...maybe he painted a baseball green? Tennis ball with an orbit? --Super Bhaal (talk) 08:59, 13 March 2009 (UTC)
Infobox picture Edit
I'm not quite sure that this should be the infobox picture. In my opinion it should reflect the current state of the character, this is something like an identity card to him and now his appearance is quite different.Dakovski (talk) 15:12, 16 June 2008 (UTC)
- The new appearance is a recent development. For most of the article, and for most readers, that's what he looks like.
- That said, if there is a particularly good picture of him as a Felblood (ie, not a model viewer shot and preferably drawn), I see no reason not to replace the image. -- (talk · contr) 15:43, 16 June 2008 (UTC)
- Well, I don't like it personally; while it fits the criteria nicely, we have the luxury of other images that show his face, even if they show the old appearance. Also, I'm not sure this will look good scaled down into the infobox. If you feel like replacing it, though, I don't have enough objection to stop you, just make sure that the current infobox image is placed somewhere near the top. __ (talk · contr) 13:21, 17 June 2008 (UTC)
- Generally speaking on other major lore characters like Arthas, Ner'zhul and even Malfurion, we use front view pictures of them. Even if they are "younger" or "unchanged", "uncorrupted versions. We avoid pictures where a character is turned away from the camera, if frontal images exist.Baggins (talk) 16:01, 18 June 2008 (UTC)
Heroic Attunement Quest Edit
I really dont understand this. While its a good idea to run the instance first before finnaly getting heroic attunement this one seems rather strange for a few reasons. One the main part of the attunement quest is to KILL Kael'thas and take his HEAD. Before we took an orb explaining why he could still be alive, but this time we are taking his HEAD. Second, we did this quest so we could beat kael'thas (and all the other bosses) for better items. Yet we are killing him yet again, we just got over the fact that we took his head, He has different spells too. Basicly im asking How is it possible that he's alive after we just took his head? I dont think blizzard thought this quest through. --Whitedragon254 (talk) 22:23, 19 June 2008 (UTC)
- Gameplay =/= lore, my friend. Lorewise, you kill something once, and it's dead (barring things like undeath or demonic resurrection). Smile, nod, and move on, knowing that Heroic Mode doesn't really exist in the lore. -- Dark T Zeratul (talk) 23:10, 19 June 2008 (UTC)
- Its like a mini retcon *shivers* oh god its like every time i run an instance im making my own retcon T-T. its like Kael dies.... an hour later you run it heroic You: WTF i just took your head! Kael: I got like 150000 in the back, no problem for me. You : O_O.......--Whitedragon254 (talk) 06:27, 27 June 2008 (UTC)
The Crystal in Kael's Chest Edit
today i talked with a gm and i asked him a few questions about kael'thas. (I had opened a ticket because my account was hacked :() he answered them nicely and i got screenshots. Our conversation went as such. --Whitedragon254 (talk) 16:32, 11 July 2008 (UTC)
- I am not sure if that info contradicts this or not, but it fills in some gaps.-- 02:48, 14 July 2008 (UTC)
- The speculation is proven wrong now, so I say go ahead.-- 21:25, 14 July 2008 (UTC)
- If you want to take a few sentences to describe his new appearance in appropriate section of the article, that would be fine. I don't want to give it its own section because that would lead to rancid speculation or overly-long descriptions that wouldn't do anything. If we had a significant amount of information about how the characters appearance was designed, then we could devote a section to it, but not just chronicling one appearance change.-- (talk · contr) 15:01, 15 July 2008 (UTC)
- I'm not sure what you are talking about. Personally I would't take anything said by a GM seriously. Many of them have nothing to do with the story development are likely just hired to keep the peace. Sure some may be main Blizzard designers but somehow I really doubt they'd take on the mundane task of answering tickets all the time.
- Edit: I'm sure whatever you all, discussed and decision was made was made more from facts in the game and official interviews, and not just what a GM said. Yes its obvious that Kael didn't die in the tempest keep (actually his escape was mentioned early on).Baggins (talk) 09:14, 27 August 2008 (UTC)
Possible WotLK Appearance? Edit
I was browsing the Beta Models section on WotlkWiki and stumbled across this image: . I think Kael'thas could be in the next expansion as a servant of the Lich King... But I think it's maybe too unclear at this point to put anything in the article. It is a custom model, though. Fallal (talk) 22:45, 23 July 2008 (UTC)
- No Kael is dead (for good) those are Darkfallen. Leviathon (talk) 23:41, 23 July 2008 (UTC)
That mob doesn't even have a Blood Elf model; it's a Night Elf.
But I don't agree fully with Leviathon. Blizzard has yet to retcon back many characters to life (Maiev, Baelgun, Muradin, Magtheridon, etc.). Kael'thas has always been a very popular char, and I look forward to meet him again in Warcraft IV.--WoWWiki-Odolwa (talk) 23:51, 23 July 2008 (UTC)
- I find this funny, that people say "Kael is like dead for good guys. Get over it." when Zalazane was beheaded multiple times, and it was a trick. Kael was almost killed once, who's to say he wouldn't learn from past events and pull a Zalazane? --Felfanatic
his relation with the blood elves Edit
my understanding is that he is leader of the blood elves, but if this is true then how is it possible for blod elf toons to gain rep with SSO? SSO is there in quel danas to prevent kil'jaedens summopning wich is the reason kaelthas is there, and if blood elves are loyal to kaelthas, then logicly they must be enemies of SSO. this paradox also occurs when BE toons enter either of the instances on the island, or when they align them selves with the scryers, who forsake their allegiance to kaelthas in order to aid the sha'tar. it all just seems a little poorly thought out in my opinion —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Liam679 (talk • contr).
- Kael betrayed the Azeroth blood elves, so it is logical they want him dead.--Gurluas (talk) 00:21, 6 August 2008 (UTC)
- As Gurluas said, Kael'thas betrayed them. All of this becomes clear once you proceed through Outland and do the quests. It's also explained quite clearly in the article. -- Dark T Zeratul (talk) 00:46, 6 August 2008 (UTC)
but then why are there statues of him all over silvermoon, if he was a betrayer and they abandoned him wouldnt the statues be destroyed? also, in the section titled "the burning crusade" it says that the remaining azerothian blood elves want to return through the portal to outland to reunite with kealthas and achieve the golden destiny promised to them. if they felt truely betrayed then they wouldnt want to reunite with him. its implied there fore that thought they were indeed betrayed, they are unaware of this betrayal.—The preceding unsigned comment was added by Liam679 (talk • contr).
- The statues are there cause it was built before his betrayal. its now there just for show, it could always just be a random Blood Mage too. They nolonger wanna reunite with him, they want to kill him now for what he's doing to them. Even if they were going to destroy the statues they would be too busy with trying to defeat kael to worry about architecture. They know about the betrayal because kael actually "Attacked" them when him and his felbloods marched into Silvermoon and stole M'uru away. Due to this they are VERY aware, and please learn to sign your posts.--Whitedragon254 (talk) 23:50, 11 August 2008 (UTC)
all i was trying to point out is that none of this is actually said in the kael'thas sunstrider page. it would seem to me, some one who doesnt know anything about the warcraft universe outisde of wow, that if he was a demonized person among the remaining azerothian blood elves, then it should be said some were on his page that they abandoned him. it says the words, and i qoute, "The remaining blood elves on Azeroth, now without support from the Alliance, are looking desperately to the Horde to help them reach Outland, where they can reunite with Kael'thas and achieve the golden destiny he promised them." this doesnt at all let the reader know that they infact dont like him. also, the only part of the article pertaining to the "attack" is buried deep within the article at the bottom of the page, not exactly where i would put an important tid-bit like that. it would seem as though a seperate section of the page should be titled at least something along the lines of "betraying the blood elves" and talk about their detatchment from his side and turning to the sha'tar. also, while the government itself may not actively use its resources to destroy the statues, the civilians undoubtedly would throw waste and rocks at them to deface them in some way. im also unaware of how to sign my posts —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Liam679 (talk • contr).
- Actually, right at the top of the page, it says, "But Kael'thas now acknowledges a more sinister being as his master. Subsequent events have led him to betray Illidan, his own people, and existence itself...giving himself willingly to the service of the Burning Legion and its lord, Kil'jaeden the Deceiver." Since Kael'thas's biography is presented in chronological order, and his betrayal was a relatively recent event, it makes sense that the details of his betrayal wouldn't be found until the end of the page. -- Dark T Zeratul (talk) 04:12, 14 August 2008 (UTC)
as i already said, i know he betrayed them, but it doesnt say that they became aware of the betrayal. unless they knew he betrayed them then they would still be loyal servants and its never stated that any one other than the blood knights left his side. but as blood knights are a killable mob to all races on the isle then it isnt made clear that the blood elf race itself disowned him. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Liam679 (talk • contr).
- That's because this article is about Kael'thas specifically, not about the blood elves as a whole. That his people found out about his betrayal and disowned him has very little impact on his character, thus there's no need for it to be in the summary of this page. On the blood elf, or blood knight, or Silvermoon pages, sure, but not here. Also, sign your posts. -- Dark T Zeratul (talk) 00:22, 22 August 2008 (UTC)
- Liam, please excuse us. We didn't realize that you, unlike everyone else on this wiki, from the part-time contributors to the admins, don't need to sign your posts! Please excuse our ignorance, in future we will just assume that when someone is the only person arguing a certain point that its you, or meticulously check the history, instead of just looking at the end of the comment for a name.
- Literally everyone else is doing it, Liam.-- (talk · contr) 21:30, 26 August 2008 (UTC)
yo buddy, go fuck yourself. i dont care if you cant see who says what. its irrelevant. if some one says something why the fuck do you need to know who said it? its said and thats all thats important. dont get sarcastic with me. you havnt even said anything till now, so why are you chiming in now? and either way, if you know that my login name is liam then clearly i dont need to sign any thing. plus, if you really cared about the thread then you would infact read the entire thing. that way you could pose useful responses rather than sarcastic dribble.
- Careful, please calm down. Ragestorm is an admin, and he was just pointing out our policy that people need to sign their posts on talk pages. Although, perhaps he could have avoided the sarcastic style.
- Please do not argue with admins, its bad karma (avoid attacking anyone as well). If you are too lazy to hit four tildes you can always click on signature button above the typing window. However please follow our policy. It is a privilege to participate on WoWWiki, not a right. If you keep on ignoring it, it could lead to a ban. In any case welcome to WoWWiki.Baggins (talk) 09:00, 27 August 2008 (UTC)
- For more info, see WW:TALK. Signing is both a common courtesy, and a necessity for discussions to make any sense. 09:04, 27 August 2008 (UTC)
ragestorm is needlessly being a dick over something that is completely irrelevant. having my posts signed doesnt make it any easier to follow the conversation. even if no one signed their posts that doesnt make the thread any more or less difficult to follow.—The preceding unsigned comment was added by Liam679 (talk • contr).
- No Ragestorm is simply enforcing a simple rule for the very reason that, despite what your limited expierience tells you, DOES make a page easier to folow since we will actualy know who said what, without having to sort through the history, especialy in the case of multiple edits. You have about ten edits, the rest of us combined probably have several hundred thousand put all together. So who would know better?. And yes it is completely relevent, your point has a better chance of being taken seriously if others see you are capable of reading instructions and following rules, instead of being a random spur of the moment blurt. No one is being a dick, and no one here has anything to lose other than yourself. 16:10, 27 August 2008 (UTC)
- I will admit that I was overly sarcastic and not very respectful. I would apoligize, but I suspect it wouldn't be accepted.
- If nobody signed, then we would have no idea who was saying what without checking the page history, so yes, the point is relevant. This isn't a thread, threads happen on forums in nice boxes that automatically show who posted. This is a wiki, so without signing, we'd have a wall of text that would occasionally be indented.
- And in case you were wondering, I do think a small mention should be made about how the Blood Elves have now discovered the truth, but there isn't a point in giving it more than a few sentences. As for why the statues of him are still there, it's probably just Blizzard not feeling that Silvermoon's appearance needs to be updated, particularly as a number of the BE quests are chronological and take place before his treachery was discovered. -- (talk · contr) 16:34, 27 August 2008 (UTC)
General History Edit
- I think the reason it was seperate was because it had a few phrases that were just about his personality, but also had phrases dealing with his origins thus the label "General History". I chaanged the section to Personality and moved the historical lines down to biography. But the article needs work. A lot of information is outdated, and written in the present tense. It needs to stay but be rephrased. Also the section i made under biography needs to be filled in, and information from RotLK added where appropriate. 19:26, 11 May 2009 (UTC)
- Blood elf. Much as he may look like a wretched in Magister's Terrace we can't really be sure (and it's probably more from being brought back from the brink of death by demonic magic than from magic withdrawal), and we know for sure he's not felblood; he never fed on demon blood that we know of. -- Dark T Zeratul (talk) 07:32, 13 July 2009 (UTC)
Vial Remnant Edit
Why didn't he simply use the vial he got to restore the sunwell rather than choose to ally with the demon that created the Scourge to destroy his homeland? - SLOWPOKE 1:00, 12 Feb 2010 (PTC)
- Because one Vial was most likely not enough (Illidan used 3 for the new Well of Eternity), and that's why he used the manaforge to stack more energy.
- Alexstrasza believed that the skull of Anasterian Sunstrider among other things were needed to restore the Sunwell's energies (Lands of Conflicts)
- However that has been proven false, since it was restored without those articfacts.
- Loremaster A'noob, Arch Druid of the Noobhoof Clan (talk/contribz) 08:17, February 12, 2010 (UTC)
But Sunwell was created by using one vial. SLOWPOKE 1:25, 12 Feb 2010 (PTC)
The description of Kael's setback line was changed with the reasoning, "So famous it's INfamous", which seems to suggest infamous is a stronger form of famous. It actually refers to something with an extremely poor or shameful reputation. Was this a mix-up, or do lots of players actually hate that line? Egrem (talk) 20:47, August 29, 2010 (UTC)
- I've heard many players complaining about that line being overused (Kael'thas, one of the guys in the Blood Council in ICC, and then Hogger in Cata). So i believed that statement was added beacuse many players have started to hate it. - Aedror42 (talk) 21:03, August 29, 2010 (UTC)
- I guess, it turned "infamous", because of the ever-returning-and-ever-weaker Kael'thas, he beats raiders to death in TK and returns in MT as a big joke (for many).
- Loremaster A'noob, Arch Druid of the Noobhoof Clan (talk/contribz) 21:10, August 29, 2010 (UTC)
something i witnessed Edit
who will stop at nothing to save his people, even if that means the slaughter of his former followers and allies.
ha isnt he simmular to arthas he wanted to save his people despite that he killed the civilians of stratholme and he took frostmourne and the shard killed muradin in the process he became a death knight slaughtered his father uther the lightbringer and some of the paladins of the silver hand
here we go
Lord Uther: your father rulled this land for 70 years and you grind it to dust in a matter of days Arthas: very dramatic uther just give me the urn and i will make sure you die quickly /this urn holds your father s ashes arthas what were you hoping to piss on them 1 more time before you let his kingdom to rot i didnt know what it held i will take for whatever i came for 1 way or another--Sartorias011 (talk) 15:36, October 30, 2010 (UTC)
Kael'thas = Aethas?! IDIOTS! Edit
I don't know who added the speculation. But it's stuff like "lollol Aethas is Kael'thas without the k, l and '! Aethas might be Kael'thas in disguise!" That makes WoWWiki a laughing stock.
I salvaged it, but guys come on... if you're going ot make a seculative addition like that take everything into account... like you know... HOW WE RIPPED KAEL'S HEAD OFF IN MgT?! KINDA HARD TO COME BACK FROM THAT!
There are ways, for instance as I posted... perhaps that Kael himself was never killed in MgT... *dun dun dun*