Talk: Illidan Stormrage

Thank God

If Illidan will be killable char, probably Kael'thas will be too and I can't think of a f___ing warrior called "aragorn_123" wielding the sacred Flamestrike, first wielded by the legendary Dath'remar, the first of the High Elves. And them... in a future expansion, Arthas will be killable too. "yo letz organize a party to get a frostsmourne and some dk armor set!!!1".

Thank God Uther and Grom died in WC3... --Brasilrag 13:59, 4 April 2006

So in Standard Written English, are you in support or opposition to Illidan being a Raid Boss? -- Ragestorm 17:21, 4 April 2006 (EDT)

I am against for all reasons said above, but I also think that he will get away before you kill him and then you can loot something he leaves behind or his throne or something. Nicholas

You can actually understand what was said above? The only thing I could decipher was that he was spiteful (and very rightly so) of people with brains to small to come up with their own names. --Ragestorm (talk · contr) 17:30, 1 January 2007 (EST)

Yeah, it's a pretty lousy end for Kael'thas, no matter how evil he's gotten, to be dismissed to the level of raid boss. So that makes it a thousand times worse for Illidan. Oh, the shame!!--Daughter of Sargeras 01:38, 22 January 2007 (EST)

Wait a second...

Will Blood Elves be able to fight Illidan? Isn't Illidan their ruler? Or maybe they fake it to gain trust with the Horde? Saimdusan

VERY long story. Blood Elves who serve Illidan are a separate faction from those in the Horde. The exact logistics aren't quite clear. --Ragestorm 17:19, 5 October 2006 (EDT)

Oops, sorry Kirochi (it is you, right?)

Illidan Rocks (that's a member name, not a love declaration), would you mind posting in here the screen I put in your Usertalk ? --Kirochi

I didn't notice your post here until pretty recently. I apologize for the wait. Here's the screenshot for all to enjoy:

http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/screenshots/screenshot.aspx?ImageIndex=434&Set=0

By the way, does anybody know what the blade seen here is called and where I can get one? In addition to the player pictured here, they're also carried by the Cenarion Circle guards in Moonglade. Also, is it a "sword", "polearm", or what?--Illidan Rocks 08:52, 1 Feb 2006 (EST)

Yes, it was me, and never mind ^^ I just dont know the name of the weapon. You may find it by browsing the web about exotic weapons (I think I've already seen this kind of weapon in some fighting movies)--Kirochi 09:42, 1 Feb 2006 (EST)

yonmwar - relax guys... i dont think that by making Illidan a raid boss that means he wont appear in the 4th wc. i mean thrall is killable too right?

Um ... It's not the same thing. Bosses are meant to be killed, not faction leaders :P--Kirochi 11:31, 31 August 2006 (EDT)

If memory serves, there was a post on the RP forums regarding the Blood Elf/Kael issue. The best thing that could be came up with was Kael became corrupt. We're not talking any corruption, but a corruption beyond what the Blood Elves would tolerate. To the above poster asking about the weapons, those are called "glaives". The link you've supplied is a dead link now, but if it is what I think it was, it would be the Twins Blades of Azzinoth. Also, Illidan will not be "killable" you're merely just "stopping" him, for lack of a better term.

Damn you Blizzard!!!! (Illidan Rocks' rant)

Anybody who's a fan of the Alien movies knows what a disappointment the third one was. Of the four characters who survived at the end of the second movie, two of them were killed off-camera in a crash landing. Every good character deserves a memorable death scene, and this is true of all fiction, whether it's a motion picture or a computer game.

It appears that Blizzard, rather than killing off Illidan in a manner similar to Grom Hellscream or Uther Lightbringer, is going to get rid of him by reducing him from an interesting character to nothing more than a one-dimensional mob and source of XP and phat lewt.

This upsets me, both because I felt sorry for Illidan and also because I rooted for him when he fought against Arthas, Tichondrius, and Magtheridon. Like many, I was disappointed with how quickly the fight between him and Arthas in TFT ended and I was glad when I found out that he was still alive. Now I find, to my chagrin, that Blizzard in its infinite wisdom appears determined to give him a death that's even more ignoble.

If this is true, there will be no rematch with Arthas. No climactic battle against Malfurion. No last-minute change of heart resulting in a noble sacrifice like Grom. Not even a novel telling the tale in the manner of Orgrim Doomhammer or Medivh.

What's next? Are they going to kill off Thrall by having him trip, fall down, get stung by a scorpid and die from the poison? How about Jaina? Let's have her choke to death on an apple.

I apologize for the sarcasm, but such a memorable character deserves a much more memorable end. Having Gul'dan and Doomhammer die the way they did was somewhat forgiveable, since when both characters were introduced in Warcraft II there were no cinematic cutscenes in the game. Neither character had any lines. We'd only read about Doomhammer's actions and received orders from him before each mission, and the only familiarity we had with Gul'dan was from reading his journal in the game manual.

Killing anybody who appeared in Warcraft III is different altogether. Everybody here has had "screen time", for lack of a better way to describe it, and to have them die at the hands of a bunch of anonymous soldiers is just wrong. It would be like ending the third Spider-Man movie with him beating the bad guys, saving everybody, and then having Mary Jane open the newspaper the next day and see an article about him having been fatally shot by some anonymous punk (the shooting itself having happened off camera).

In short, this sucks monkey balls. Illidan's death should not be less memorable than Naisha's, FFS, and that's the way it seems to be shaping up right now.--Illidan Rocks 13:32, 7 Feb 2006 (EST)

I must say, I agree. (Though the whole Jaina-apple thing would be poetic if Arthas or Kael had to revive her in a fairy-tale-esque sort of way). Reducing Illidan to a raid boss is a bit demeaning. But is Nefarian, son of an Aspect, can be reduced to such, who knows? Unless reincarnation is introduced, and Illidan doesn't die until an epic showdown with Kil'Jaeden in WarCraft IV! let's hope, anyway. -Ragestorm, Head Bookkeeper

Currently, I'm hoping for at least a way for him to raidable but not killed... Maybe a big AoE stun for the entire raid party while he runs away or goes deeper into a part of the Black Citadel that you can't get to.

I suggest posting on the forums a bunch of times. People will probably join the pro-Illidan bandwagon once they realize that Blizz may kill him off in a raid. Hey, if Blizzard will cave when a bunch of people complain about a pixel bra, they might listen to us, too. If all else fails and he DOES get killed in a raid, he'll probably end up with a book. --Kakwakas 20:07, 7 Feb 2006 (EST)

I did start a thread on the site, actually, and you can read it here if you have time to kill:

http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?fn=wow-general&t=7009633&p=1&tmp=1

There might be reason for hope. In the thread somebody wrote this...

Alrighty aparently nobody here was at Blizcon. During the Quest and Lore discussion one of the players asked the head lore desinger "Are people actualy gonna 'Kill' Illidan?"

He responded with and I quote "You don't so much 'Kill' him as much as you sorta get in his way."''

Now for the potential bad news (I say potential because it might not be true). Somebody pointed out that WoW has sold MUCH better than Warcraft III and that therefore Blizz might not even bother putting out a Warcraft IV. This person hypothesizes that if Blizz releases any more RTS games, they'll be Starcraft sequels instead. --Illidan Rocks 07:29, 9 Feb 2006 (EST)

Well, even so, Warcraft III and TFT sold disturbingly well, on the Battle Chest it says 7 million copies. While WoW has given them more money, I don't think it requires rocket science for them to figure out that Warcraft IV would give them a huge lot of money if it even sells close to as well.

Amen to THAT! at thr risk of sounding unfaithful to Illidan, I'm dying to know what the hell Duran actually is!-Ragstorm, Head Bookkeeper

Ragstorm? --Fandyllic

It's called a typographical error, Fandyllic. I'm using an iBook G4 12-inch laptop (small keys) granted from the NYCDOE, and I have a typing speed three times faster than average writing speed. cut a guy some slack!. Ragestorm, Head Bookkeeper

I agree, there's nothing more annoying than when only a handful of people get to see how a major character dies. For who is going to be able to experience Illidan's (if he dies) and Kel'Thuzad's (not so sure about this one either) death? Only those of us with enough time and money on our hands to buy WoW, purchase gaming time, and level a character up to level 60 and spend 12 hours a day raiding end-game dungeons. Kinda unfair towards us who don't have time and/or money on our hands, huh? - Narradin 13:15, 7 July 2006 (EDT)

Look, the way the game of WOW goes, if you KILL some important lore character, it DOESN'T MEAN HE IS DEAD. If I charge into all the Alliance Capitals and kill all their racial leaders, it doesn't affect the lore. Officially they do not die. I believe this applies to characters like Kel'Thazad, Illidan so and so forth. They let us fight them and defeat them but they do not get killed off. All I hope is that they don't give Illidan a death animation. Lets hope once he is defeated, he summons some stuff and the last part of the quest would be to escape alive... --Invin Dranoel 00:24, 18 October 2006 (EDT)

There's no need to worry about Illidan. He's not going to die by hands of anonymous warriors. He still has to do something with his last, unfinished task - killing the Lich King. After being defeated (not killed!) he may even consider "anonymous people" strong enough to help him fight Arthas in Northrend Expansion? Or face the wrath of Kil'jaeden - probably has nothing to do with player characters, but Kil'jaeden is probly good enough to be "the slayer of the great hero that is Illidan", dontcha think? :) --Sul'jin 18:41, 28 December 2006 (EST)

Cease and Desist

OK, I see the point of a quote page and pictures. But at this rate, the quotes are in danger of overcoming the actual article. Not only is his quote section about three times as long as anyone else's, but there are so many pictures that the article iself has become much longer in most browsers (my own now takes twice as long to load the Illidan page than most others). Can a couple of us discuss how many pictures and quotes we really need here? Ragestorm 18:16, 26 Feb 2006 (EST)

The only Illidan quote that is actually "memorable," in my opinion, is the one from the Frozen Throne opening cinematic... the rest are just... meh --Adonzo 02:29, 8 April 2006 (EDT)

Well, it's cleaned up a bit now- when I posted that, almost every one of Illidan's lines from the game and far too many from the novels were there- this page's only problem now may be a biography that is too detailed. --Ragestorm 08:22, 8 April 2006 (EDT)

Killable Illidan

"At this time (Feb. 7th, 2006), all signs point to Illidan being killable by players in the Black Citadel instance. Fans of the character (such as User:Illidan Rocks and User:Illidan's Lieutenant) can only hope he is able to cheat death a second time for an appearance in Warcraft IV and that he hasn't become irredeemably evil or mad (see discussion page for User:Illidan Rocks editorializing on this)." -- Illidan Rocks 10:04, 7 February 2006

While i agree with the above statment, i have also heard rumors that after you get him to X% he will flee and leave a chest, similar to domo, -Maby he is the domo to someone more powerful? Kil'Jaden anyone? --Nataku 08:42, 22 March 2006

Kil'Jaeden? With Archimonde dead and Sargeras kinda, you know, dead/incorporeal/whoknows, Kil'Jaeden is practically the overlord of the entire Burning Legion. He orchestrated the corruption of the Orcs, the creation of the Scourge. He is the brains behind the Legion. Making him a simple raid boss would be as bad as making Illidan one. --Adonzo 03:53, 29 March 2006 (EST)

i dont think killing illidan would me a good idea, he is the strongest after arthas and the only one who is strong enough to even be any kind of enemy to arthas...

Limited space?

Before adding a continuation of the half-finished War of the Ancients trilogy story I received a message warning me that the page was 30kb and that some browsers have trouble editing pages that large. Should I be watching how long I make this entry, and others?--Illidan Rocks 14:50, 6 April 2006 (EDT)

To respond, I must ask the question: do you intend to reproduce such detail of "alternate" (I hate the fact that no one knows if its canon or not) events on the pages of Tyrande, Furion, Krasus, Rhonin, Alextrasza, Ysera and Nozdormu? I think what I'm trying to ask is: it is really vital to have that much information on just Illidan? This is WoWWiki, not IllidanWiki. I apoligize if I sound irritable, but I noticed a similar thing a few months back- apparently Illidan's entire script was reproduced under "memorable quotes" and I got a warning when I tried to add a Frozen Throne note. Ragestorm 22:11, 6 April 2006 (EDT)

My answer to that would be no...partly because it's a lot of work just to write the story of what happened with Illidan, partly because a lot more stuff happened to Malfurion and therefore his section would be something like twice as lengthy...partly because I don't remember what everything that happened to Malfurion as well as I do Illidan and, to a lesser extent, Tyrande...and partly because the responsibility for the Malfurion and Tyrande entries were given to other Book Keepers; as I recall I got Illidan, Kael and Vashj. As for Rhonin and Krasus they aren't mentioned in the "original" history so their only story is the alternate one, which has probably already been written about here, and there's only so much you can write about what happened with the Aspects, particularly Nozdormu who spent the entire trilogy working his scaly ass off to hold reality together and wasn't available to get involved in the conflict with the Legion.

I was considering putting something about Malfurion's relationship with his brother into the Malfurion entry however, and it might answer your question about whether this stuff is canon.

You see, in the conversation with Remulos, Malfurion says "I fear that the time may soon come that our bond is tested and it will not be as it was at the Well in Zin-Azshari." At the Well in the changed history involving Rhonin, Krasus & Brox, the brothers worked together to defeat the Legion. In the original history, they were on opposite sides. So it appears that the Malfurion in the game is referring to the changed history. It also appears that this Malfurion is sad for his brother and isn't looking forward to fighting him, which is more consistent with the forgiving and patient Malfurion portrayed in the trilogy rather than the self-righteous and angry Malfurion portrayed in WC3 and TFT.

If space is a problem, I can always write a short note saying that things went much differently for Illidan in the changed history and then create an entire new page devoted to that, which I can link to this entry. I could copy the entirety of the text I've added so far concerning the trilogy of books into that new entry, if that would work better.--Illidan Rocks 13:33, 8 April 2006 (EDT)

that sounds like the best solution; I think we should consider a blow-by-blow account of the alternate War and link it to the relevant characters; as for canon, I think that the only thing that would confirm or deny is if Jarod Shadowsong (Maiev's brother) turns up at some point, or if Shandris or Tyrande mentions him- the same thing goes for Krasus and Rhonin. We've been getting a lot of problems with major character length- in addition to Night Elf leaders, see Arthas. Trust me, that on'es painful. I think we just have to reorganize most of them. --Ragestorm 14:28, 8 April 2006 (EDT)

Do we need so much pics?--K ) (talk) 18:16, 18 November 2006 (EST)

Don't blame me, blame the people who think Illidan is the best guy ever. (User:Illidan Rocks excepted, of course). Cut what you think is redundant- be it pictures or the notes. --Ragestorm 20:59, 18 November 2006 (EST)

Done. But still think the page's abit long. What is this page becoming when Illidan'll be ingame and thousands of ingame info and strategies will come to this page ? Separate Illidan (lore) and Illidan, like Kel'thuzad ?--K ) (talk) 04:13, 19 November 2006 (EST)

I guess. I'd prefer Illidan Stormrage and Illidan (in-game), myself, since the character existed long before the game event and should have his biography on a non-parenthetical page. --Ragestorm 10:39, 19 November 2006 (EST)

Satyrs ?

Where do we learn that he rules over Satyrs ? oO In the campaign mission where he gets to destroy the Skull of Gul'dan there are some hostile Satyr mobs and they seem eager to kill him as much as the others ... And I can't find anywhere else that he is their leader.--Kirochi 17:31, 28 July 2006 (EDT)

Terror of the Tides: Rise of the Naga. A Shadowdancer (or was it a Hellcaller?) told Maiev that "Lord Illidan ordered us to kill anyone entering this place, and we shall." Wait, maybe that was in Invasion of Kalimdor in reference to Tichondrius... anyway, whatever the evidence, there actually isn't much. It makes a bit of sense lore-wise, as they used to be Highbourne. --Ragestorm 17:06, 29 July 2006 (EDT)

Ok ... But Illidan could have got these servants because he served the Burning Legion, so no real reason. Thanks !--Kirochi 17:13, 29 July 2006 (EDT)

Yeah, the satyrs' loyalty is primarily to the Legion, just like the naga's loyalty is primarily to Azshara and the Old Gods. Since Illidan was acting on Kil'jaeden's behalf in that first Frozen Throne campaign, Kil'jaeden probably ordered the satyrs to help him out. Now that Kil'jaeden is displeased with Illidan, those same satyrs are probably seeking his capture or death today.--Illidan Rocks 14:01, 13 September 2006 (EDT)

I figured this out (I'm that smart), that's why the sentence "Is the ruler of the Satyr of Azeroth" almost made me choke.--Kirochi 16:07, 13 September 2006 (EDT)

Illidan, after accepting his mission from Kil'jaeden, summoned the Naga to help him in his task. He probly promised them to take vengeance upon the night elves, whom they hate so much. He might have promised the same to the Satyr. Moreover, Illidan is now a demonic hybrid, serving the leader of the Burning Legion, so he might have used his new position to acquire Satyr allies. Both Illidan and the Satyr have at least two things in common - they all were night elves in the past and they serve the Burning Legion (or served - Illidan has failed his master, and now hides from him, but the Satyr doesn't have to know that). --Sul'jin 19:14, 28 December 2006 (EST)

My theory on why we'll have to fight Illidan

From what I can recall, Outland is sort of an interdimensal hub; if the people of Azeroth want to get to some other world occupied by the Legion, for the purpose of taking the fight to the demons there, they have to travel to Outland and open the portal to the world in question. Opening one of the portals would probably make it just as easy for the Burning Legion's forces to get into Outland, and that would present a threat to Illidan; after all, he doesn't want scores of demons to storm into Outland where they can possibly capture him and take him to Kil'Jaeden, right? So he'll do whatever he can to stop those portals from being opened.

Now for a non sequitur: if that sculpture of Illidan is any indication, he is never...getting laid...again...EVER.--Illidan Rocks 02:04, 12 September 2006 (EDT)

Nope, he will still get Succumbus and other hot demon girls... --Invin Dranoel 00:26, 18 October 2006 (EDT)

Wouldn't bet on it; I hear they only go for guys with tails.--Ragestorm 00:58, 18 October 2006 (EDT)

And Dark Iron dwarves, too.--Illidan Rocks 12:59, 20 October 2006 (EDT)

Well having seen everyone argueing about Illidan I happened to come across this video http://video.google.co.uk/videoplay?docid=7283435429228075951&q=illidan it looks like Illidan, but it is in Onyxia's Lair? --Jammidodger 08:51, 3 January 2007 (EST)

looks like a dreadlord to me, you can't really tell.--Ragestorm (talk · contr) 10:59, 3 January 2007 (EST)

I have a bad feeling about this...

Some time ago, I said that if Illidan wound up doing something really, really horrible then I would change my user name to something besides "Illidan Rocks." The logic being, of course, that if he becomes as bad as or worse than Arthas, he will no longer rock.

More recently, I see that the Coilfang Reservoir instance includes slave pens full of downtrodden draenei forced to serve the naga. This isn't totally unexpected since Vashj is known to be quite a bitch. Who knows whether she's acting with Illidan's approval or not, since most people seem to agree that her loyalty is primarily to Azshara and then to Illidan. But it does make me wonder just how cruel the dude known in Kaldorei circles as "The Betrayer" might be these days.

When I say I'm going to do something I intend to do it, but in this case it seems that I can't change my user name. I can change just about everything else, but not the user name. So is there a way to alter it that I've missed, or will I be "Illidan Rocks" until the end of time (or wowwiki, whichever ends first)? Hopefully my boy Illidan won't let me down, but if he does I'd like to be able to keep my word.--Illidan Rocks 18:10, 21 October 2006 (EDT)

Kewl. I'll put a note.--K ) (talk) 18:19, 21 October 2006 (EDT)

Classification

I think we can classify Illidan in his portait as a Satyr and not a a Night Elf. If you look at this picture you can see he has hooves and furry legs like a satyr and we all know he has horns... N'Nanz 13:40, 22 October 2006

Part night elf and part demon. I know that's the technical definition of a satyr, but Illidan has more demon than they do. Note the wings. --Ragestorm 10:02, 22 October 2006 (EDT)

I don't know. In my opinion it looks like a satyr with wings nor his skin color resemble a Night Elf. However Night Elf/Demon hibrid is the definition of a satyr. -N'Nanz 14:20, 22 October 2006

'Just another demon/NE hybrid' seems to be the only valid definition as of now.--K ) (talk) 14:06, 22 October 2006 (EDT)

The resemblance is there, but there are differences. For one thing, except for his horns and wings Illidan looks pretty much like regular night elf from the waist up, unlike satyrs. The other thing that occurs to me is that satyrs aren't nelf/demon hybrids so much as they're a whole different race, like the naga. Before Illidan's consumption of the Skull of Gul'dan, the only thing that distinguished him from other night elves was his eyes. Consuming the Skull didn't turn him into a "satyr", but I would say made him into something completely unique in the Warcraft universe. Whatever he is, he is the only one of his kind we have seen.--Illidan Rocks 12:29, 29 October 2006 (EST)

And as far as I know, NE bleed red, not Illidian...---Firelord- 21:20, 27 November 2006 (EST)

"he is the only one of his kind we have seen"

Well except for other Demon Hunters going into "Metamorphosis"-mode which is for limited periods of time btw... and lore goes out of its way to explain "Metamorphosis" appearance in the WC3 manual and rpg. However, there are other ways to go about taking on the "Metamorphosis" appearance besides drinking from skull of Gul'dan. I would argue the race could be called "Demon Hunters" except demon hunters can originate from other races including Humans, and high elves. I don't know if the appearance differs between races however. Give me time and I'll update the demon hunter article with more information, as I am working on updating all "class" articles with lore as I have the time.Baggins 13:24, 27 December 2006 (EST)

It has nothing to do with the metamorphosis spell- think of it as a way for all the warlock energies of the Skull to manifest during transformation. And you can't argue that the race could be called demon hunters, that's a class.-_Ragestorm, Head Bookkeeper 17:07, 27 December 2006 (EST)

For me, Illidan resembles more a Nathrezim than a Satyr - notice the wings and especially the horns - note Illidan's in the TFT intro, and during the play, and compare them to Dreadlords' and Satyrs' horns). Second, note that when Illidan meets Kil'jaeden, he has still night elf form! So we can say that the Skull of Gul'dan gave Illidan power to change into a more powerful demon-form than he would have through "normal", demon hunter way, but could revert back to his former state later. Illidan was fuelled by Kil'jaeden's fel powers to become more powerful, to make his task easier, and probably by doing so, Kil'jaeden made a way to find him wherever he goes. Again, note that demonic-Illidan in TFT could use "Metamorphosis" to change into demon-form. I would vote for Illidan being a unique being, because unlike the Satyr, he had warlock powers of Skull of Gul'dan and being already "connected" to demons by the means that all Demon Hunters are. --Sul'jin 19:36, 28 December 2006 (EST)

"It has nothing to do with the metamorphosis spell- think of it as a way for all the warlock energies of the Skull to manifest during transformation"

I agree, but all metemophosed demon hunters all look the same in game, :p...Baggins 19:42, 28 December 2006 (EST)

Hes not a Satyr hes a Demi-God

Demigod? Well, then most of powerful heroes would have this status as well (Thrall, Tyrande, etc.). I think that he's just very powerful individual, but not a demigod (yet). --Sul'jin 19:09, 29 December 2006 (EST)

I Guess the only possible Demi-God Hero would be Arthas... ---Firelord- 17:17, 4 January 2007 (EST)

The Lich King (Ner'zhul and Arthas conjoined) are more like a god. Demigod is a bit weak word for describing them.--Odolwa 23:51, 4 January 2007 (EST)

He's a satyr. By definition a satyr is any night elf who has willingly given himself over to demonic energies, so much so that he has become transformed -- obviously this is the case for Illidan, who meets all definitions of the criteria. The only difference is he's far omre powerful than any satyr on Azeroth, and his powers have also granted him the ability to fly and fully metamorphasize into a spectral demon. I think the only reason why people feel uncomfortable classifying him as such is because the satyrs we know in-game are pushovers, but we don't shy from calling Aspects dragons when we can one-shot weaker ones flying around behind Blackrock Mountain.

As to Firelord talking about night elf blood - night elves bleed purple. I've killed my fair share of them in War3.--Zexx 19:52, 4 January 2007 (EST)

I quote our dear Maiev Shadowsong: "Now Illidan is nor Night Elf, nor Demon, but something more..".

He's one of a kind, I would say.--Odolwa 02:22, 4 January 2007 (EST)

By what definition of a satyr? A satyr is a more specific definition than "any night elf who has willingly given himself over to demonic energies, so much so that he has become transformed". See the Satyr page. -- User:Kirkburn/Sig 20:32, 4 January 2007 (EST)

Blizzard sources don't say "satyr" they say "a mixure of night elf and demon." the Warcraft encyc give his demon type as "unique" [1]--Ragestorm (talk · contr) 20:37, 4 January 2007 (EST)

"You don't so much 'Kill' him as much as you sorta get in his way."

I'm thinking that the Illidan fight won't be so much Illidan trying to kill the players as the raid trying to block Illidan from doing something. Maybe a NPC to protect (that'd be new for a raid boss, I think). Then, when he gets low enough, he decides it isn't worth the trouble and leaves. That explains the "get in his way", as opposed to "be annoying" or "give him a workout" or something that doesn't imply a goal other than killing him. --Bobson 14:20, 21 November 2006 (EST)

Aw come on stop these rancid speculations ! He'll be killable, as any other boss from WoW, that's all ! But this death just won't be definitive.--K ) (talk) 15:06, 21 November 2006 (EST)

Just posted today at the offical BC FAQ:

Q: Will it be possible to kill Illidan in the Burning Crusade?

A: Illidan doesn't think so. As a matter of fact, he's probably thinking about destroying your character for simply entertaining the thought

--Bobson 16:47, 21 November 2006 (EST)

Well Kel'thuzad didn't think so either before we pwned his face ... And neither did Onyxia, nor Nefarian, nor Ragnaros, netc.--K ) (talk) 16:58, 21 November 2006 (EST)

Or C'Thun, or Archimonde, or Tichondrius, or going back so, so far... He'll be killable in terms of game mechanics, like it or not. The liklihood that he actually dies or stays dead is quite low.--Ragestorm 21:44, 21 November 2006 (EST)

Theres a diferace between dieing and "dieing". You cant kill Illidan. If he dose die it would be against someone like Arthas or Kil'Jaeden

I would certainly HOPE so. Anyway, often you'll kill somebody and their ghost will thank you for freeing them from whatever made them evil in life: the ghouls in EPL, Cerebras, Eranikus (back when the Scepter of the Shifting Sands was being assembled and his story had an ending). I don't know how that works, but evidently in WoW you can turn somebody good if you hit them hard enough and often enough. :p Balnazzar might be gone for good, btw, since I just can't think of any reason why he'd show up again. He was a pretty minor character in TFT, after all. Even if he's alive I'll be surprised if he makes another appearance.--Illidan Rocks 16:53, 29 December 2006 (EST)

Lore vs. Tactics

What about making two pages, a la Kel'Thuzad, one for lore and one for tactics? --Tinkerer 16:24, 23 December 2006 (EST)

I agree, though personally I think, main article should link to the lore, and Illidan Stormrage (tactics) for example, should be for gameplay. Since in the long run there is more lore than there is tactics. I think Kel'Thuzad articles should be switched in a similar fashion as well.Baggins 16:28, 23 December 2006 (EST)

That's my plan. I refuse to have Illidan relegated to a page purely on how to beat him (as the many above discussions show, we're getting enough grief over the mere thought of killing him). It should be the other page that bears the name, like Illidan (tactics), Illidan Instance, or sume such. I suppose Kel'Thuzad should be switched as well. --Ragestorm, Head Bookkeeper 16:41, 23 December 2006 (EST)

Agreed. Lore first, tactics second. -- Kirkburn (talk) 17:06, 23 December 2006 (EST)

Instance suggestion

This article or section includes speculation, observations or opinions possibly supported by lore or by Blizzard officials. It should not be taken as representing official lore.

Here's my view of how it should go:

1. Illidan, seeing a freed Maiev, stalks toward her.
2. Akama and the players "get in his way" as she channels something. [NEXT, EXCITING STUFF HAPPENS WITH RAID! OOH!]
3. Tyrande returns him to his cage.
4. Illidan bursts free of his cage, and screams, "You cannot defeat me! I am darkness incarnate! I will not be denied!"
5. The raid group and NPCs are powerless as he wings away.

You'll understand the plot twist when you consider who else called himself "darkness incarnate."--Ragestorm, Head Bookkeeper 17:51, 28 December 2006 (EST)

As long as it's not something taffertastic like you beating him to an inch of his life and him going "YOU ARE NOT PREPARED!!! LOLOLOL!!" and bubble hearths out.--Zexx 17:54, 28 December 2006 (EST)

I'm the Head Bookkeeper; when I make a proposition, it's lore-possible.--Ragestorm, Head Bookkeeper 17:55, 28 December 2006 (EST)

Ragestorm would overrule Metzen if he had the chance. -- Kirkburn (talk) 17:58, 28 December 2006 (EST)

Uh, er, on topic ... yeah, that's exactly what I was thinking of :) Edit, oh, oooh, I see what you're saying about the quote! Definately hinted, isn't it? -- Kirkburn (talk) 17:59, 28 December 2006 (EST)

Why Tyrande? I take that as a mistake, where it should be Maiev who puts Illidan in cage. Personally I think that Illidan would allow to get himself into a cage third time, no. He would rather fly away to prevent that happening.

And Maiev's plot sounds nice. I would also like to see her fighting alongside the player characters, it would be nice to have a possibility to fight with a legend like her. I mean, I love the "Escape from Durnholde Keep" thing, because you can fight alongside Thrall himself, like take place in creation of history. So fighting with Maiev (she lacks any other allies, so she might as well join a player raid party) against Illidan could be a nice thing to see. I still can't imagine Akama's role, except that he would release Maiev... --Sul'jin 19:50, 28 December 2006 (EST)

You know I would love to see some kind of scripted event. You battle Illiden down, he's about to die, and you hear word of Alliance and/or horde reinforcements on their way who a few lesser ones rush in. He uses some terrible non-blockable AOE attack, "instant kill". Everyone in the raid and the lesser Allied npcs die, and he runs off.

However while you are dead and now viewing things from your body, you are not allowed to respawn. A few moments later, famous heroes sucha as Thrall, Turyon and the Alleria Windrunner enter the room, and start to mass AOE Resurrect everyone. Letting everyone know they had done a good job, and then allowing you to loot something Illidan left behind. It could be very epic. But knowing blizzard they'll simplify everything

Mind you I would like to see an event like this, doesn't have to be for Illiden(I don't really care if we truly kill him or not), though he would be an epic choice....Baggins 15:38, 29 December 2006 (EST)

Oh, come on, that scripted squad (Thrall, Turalyon, Alleria, etc.) could be used to help defeat for example Kil'jaeden, but not Illidan... I think that a band of 25 lv 70 characters are comparable to 25 heroes like those mentioned before (in strength, not fame). Although I think it would be nice to see at least one scripted character helping players defeat, and IMHO best possibilities are Akama (vengeance for allowing/not disallowing Vashj to have draenei slaves, and to stop him becoming new "Magtheridon"-style ruler of Draenor/Outland) or Maiev (reasons known to all). --Sul'jin 19:04, 29 December 2006 (EST)

Someone on the forums a while ago wrote a very cool description of how the encounter would go. It basically ends with Kil'jaeden popping out complaining about his wayward prodigal, and taking him to the TN to punish him, but not dispose of him yet.. Since he still has a use for him.

My personal theory is that right before you are about to down him, he becomes immensely powerful beyond reckoning, linked with a previous server-wide event where Illidan is available for downing. He wipes the entire raid group. They MUST DIE no matter what. He escapes and flees Outland for another planet.. Where our next expansion will take us, but not without leaving his pretty purples behind.--Zexx 22:39, 29 December 2006 (EST)

In my opinion the Kil'Jaeden popping out of nowhere thing makes sense...because he created the Lich King, so why shouldn't he do the same sort of thing with Illidan, and try to use him agains Arthas? I think that he hasn't come out yet to punish our wayward Outlord because he always seems to wait until characters are alone and powerless before coming out to do his thing. Since I am already mad about having to fight him, the idea of Killie (I haven't much reverence for Sargeras' sneakiest Lieutenant, sorry) punishing him after everything he's been through is, to me, absurdly unfair, but, as Metzen is almost never nice to his heroes, it wouldn't be at all surprising. I like the theory of him flying away, myself :))--Daughter of Sargeras 23:58, 29 December 2006 (EST)

"...he idea of Killie (I haven't much reverence for Sargeras' sneakiest Lieutenant, sorry) punishing him after everything he's been through is, to me, absurdly unfair..." You and I are in total agreement here. And if we wind up making Illidan vulnerable to the point where Kil'jaeden can swoop in and grab him, I'll like it even less. Oh yeah, and I dislike the idea that a guy as bad as Kel'thuzad would suffer less than a guy with a better (if not exactly perfect) moral compass like Illidan. Anybody read Knaak's depiction of what Sargeras did to Xavius? That's what Illidan has in store for him. *shudder* --Illidan Rocks 15:46, 10 January 2007 (EST)

You people do realize that the whole point of my suggestion was the darkness incarnate reference, right? --Ragestorm, Head Bookkeeper 01:02, 30 December 2006 (EST)

I quote Arthas, "Who IS this DARKNESS anyway!?"--Zexx 04:25, 30 December 2006 (EST)

He's mean, he's green, and he's an orc-corrupting machine. Do I have to spell it out for you? he betreyed his masters left and right? most evil warlock ever seen among mortal races?--Ragestorm, Head Bookkeeper 09:43, 30 December 2006 (EST)

...That would be Gul'dan. Still don't get the whole "I am darkness incarnate" business though. -- Varghedin 16:00 30 Dec 2006 (CET)

I have no idea why he called himself that, as as for why I think Illidan should say it... think back; how did Illidan say he knew how to find the Tomb of Sargeras?--Ragestorm, Head Bookkeeper 12:42, 30 December 2006 (EST)

You never know what kind of side effects you could get drinking out Guld'dan's shiny noggen....Baggins 13:20, 30 December 2006 (EST)

So basically it might be that "Illidan" has been taken over by "Gul'Dan"....makes sense too, I guess. But if you're speaking of evil, wasn't Ner'Zhul more evil than Gul'Dan? Not having really paid attention to the WC2 story very much. Oh well, the point is, Illidan's insanity and his inability to admit defeat to Arthas would probably weaken him sufficiently for Gul'Dan's memories to be able to take over his brain. Perhaps when you defeat Illidan this time round, he loses his connection to Gul'Dan? Now that would be interesting. --Daughter of Sargeras 13:07, 30 December 2006 (EST)

When did he start calling himself that? Now that I think back though it does make sense he was able to find the Tomb after consuming the Skull of Gul'dan. Our wayward Stormrage should grow very powerful soon enough.--Zexx 13:21, 30 December 2006 (EST)

Therein lies my point. I personally (and loreplayers and rolepayers should agree) see little point in encountering Illidan without a little more information on the connection between him and whatever vestiges of Gul'dan remain in his mind. When Melfurion says that Illidan is becoming deluded, my mind jumped instantly to the Skull.

To address your question, Sargerasia, Rise of the Horde raises questions that suggest Ner'zhul wasn't as evil as we think... (response to this comment should be moved to a different page).--Ragestorm, Head Bookkeeper

Which page should we respond on, Ragestorm? Because I would really like to say something about this! :-) --Illidan Rocks 15:55, 10 January 2007 (EST)

Whether to kill or not kill Illidan

I'm sorry, I've never seen the full transcript of the lore panel from BlizzCon, so we need to put up a link to the source where Metzen says we will not kill him. Else that statement is null and void, and due to the fact-tag I added, people will be able to take it with a grain of salt.

--Iluvatar 17:44, 31 December 2006 (EST)

BC spoilers: let's see 'em

I'm the Bookkeeper assigned to Illidan but have not played the beta. If people are reluctant about posting details about what happens to him in BC because they think it'll result in an edit-war (which I have, admittedly, sometimes allowed my overprotectiveness of the character to get me into), please don't hesitate. Post away! I want to know this stuff as much as anybody else.--Illidan Rocks 15:49, 10 January 2007 (EST)

He's not in the beta. :) User:Kirkburn/Sig 15:59, 10 January 2007 (EST)

Spoilers? Pff. You are not prepared. User:Montag/sig 16:11, 10 January 2007 (EST)

Thank you...so much for the nutcase that said you can kill Illy, and get his head and grom's axe from him >_> *relieved* --Maibe 17:07, 10 January 2007 (EST)

DEMON HUNTER????

He can turn into a "FULL" demon when he whiches (metamorphisis), but so can other demon hunters.. I dun get it. He should at least have choas damage to show he's a demon... Also no wear (except ROC and TFT) metions hes a demon hunter. BLizzard should release some book about Illidan and how he became a demon hunter. Whats with his panda blade. Techinally speaking Illidan is a stayr. --Ramming pure 05:06, 15 January 2007 (EST)

They did. Illidan acquired the powers of a Demon Hunter through Sargeras. Illidan's story is fine, it's just that there's no sign of the rest of the demon hunters. The Blades of Azzinoth (another one of those RPG facts) have a panda image because that's Samwise's trademark, and it's a nice little in-joke. A satyr is not a being who is half-night elf and half-demon, a satyr is a being who was once a night elf but turned into a "demidemon", for lack of a better term. --Ragestorm (talk · contr) 09:02, 15 January 2007 (EST)

General Info

Is there even a point in having this section. Other characters don't have it, or at least the ones I've seen. Anything in here can be directly included in the article itself. Also there should be syncronicity between articles, if one has it then all should have it or none should have it. To me it ruins the professional look of the article and makes it seem untidy. I'm not going to delete this because its a mjor portion but I would like someone to jutstify it being here. If not then I'll delete it. Noman953, 04:15 23 January 2007

Rather than just being removed entirely, it should be rewritten into a short intro prose covering the important points about Illidan. Certainly at the moment it covers far far too much, is inconsistent and invites the addition of pointless factoids. User:Kirkburn/Sig 04:37, 23 January 2007 (EST)

Agreed. For the record, Furion has one of those as well, but we should compress the info into paragraph format, in the same manner as other pages, such as Tyrande.--Ragestorm (talk · contr) 17:15, 23 January 2007 (EST)

Edits are done. Noman953, 06:56 23 January 2007

Illidan Will Die

"I am not trying to start any arguments but it has to be said. Few of the suggestions above are possible, but a lot of them are geeky fanboy drivel that would ultimately turn out for the worse. First and foremost; when a boss in WoW dies, he dies in lore, in storyline, in histroy, whatever. That character is gone, unless, as in Kel'Thuzad's case, he boasts that he will return. Ragnaros, Nefarion and C'Thun are dead, and Kel was either rambling or he'll be brought back by the Lich King more powerful than ever as he claimed he would be.

Illidan is stronger that Kel'Thuzad. He was fairly even with Arthas, but as soon as Arthas put that helmet on his head, Arthas' power sky-rocketed to the point where he would obliterate Illidan in seconds. Blizzard said played will have to be at least level 90 to have a chance at Arthas. So, Illidan is stronger than Kel'Thuzad, but unfathomably weaker than Arthas. Level 70 is a very understandable level for Illidan. Illidan will not escape, because there is no future past level 70 in WoW for him. He is not strong enough to be a challenge for us at level 80.

But, Blizzard did state that we would not kill him, we could get in his way. Obviously, this means another Domo. But, unlike Domo, he will not escape. I think it was mentioned above, and I love this theory, that Kil'Jaedan will appear and finally get the revenge he promised upon Illidan so many years ago. That will be an epic story scene that should be enough to satisfy anybody. And I hope to god it will be CGI, but that is a little doubtful.

As Warcraft games have gone on, each one has become more emmersive. The first one hardly had a storyline at all aside from what you read in the game manual. The second presented the story a little better but wasn't much greater than the first. The third broke ground and made Warcraft great for story, when it used to only be great for gameplay. Now, Blizzard has taken the next step by letting 'US' become a part of the story. There is no Warcraft 4 and there never will be. WoW is going to end it. Do not flame me, don't have a cry, that is it. Illidan will die. Azshara will die. The nightmare in the Emerald Dream will be solved. Arthas, Anub'Arak and a reborn Kel'Thuzad will die and on the last expansion pack when Azeroth and the other worlds who still battle the Burning Legion clash with the entirety of the demonic forces, Kil'Jaeden (or Sargeras if he comes back) will die." Maarz

PS. I will happily answer any disagreements or inevitable flames you send my way.

And a bunch of "heroes" are going to stop great Sargeras himself in his quest. Yeah, right. First, please, tell us how do you know what Blizzard prepared for Illidan? We're dying to know that! And if you don't know that, don't be so sure when stating such things. The thinmg with Kil'jaeden coming and taking his "payment" from Illidan has one major issue - if Kil'jaeden does it, he will probably offer players to join him in his conquest or to die here and now. Players will probably refuse, and you know what then would happen? Massive wipe. Nothing more, nothing less. Kil'jaeden is more powerful than the Lich King, and the Lich King, as you said, is much more powerful than Illidan, so K'J wouldn't have problems in killing a gropu of 25 level 70 people. And then what? Well, there's nothing to stop him getting through the portal to Azeroth, to spread death and destruction, as the Leaders of the Burning Legion tried twice already.

Even if all villains that are killable in-game are dead in the lore, Blizzard won't allow to kill all evil guys, because this would mean the end of Warcraft - and there's still to be someone left to be killed in WoW2 or Warcraft 4, and thus, more money for Blizzard for their hard work. And Sargeras is "the ultimate evil" of Warcraft, and evil never dies, so that story may continue. User:Sul'jin/Sig07:11, 23 January 2007 (EST)

There is a reason the "current status" of all notable mobs is left at "killable", we don't know for sure we really killed C'thun, Hakkar, etc. Sure we "killed" them gameplay wise but it isn't a credible reason to believe they have been killed lore wise. What you said makes it seem like if the Horde stormed into Darnassus and killed Tyrande she is officaly dead, which is of course, inaccurate. Hordesupporter 14:54, 23 January 2007 (EST)

Sul'jin, you couldn't be more right about what Kil'Jaeden would do when he found a bunch of helpless alliance or horde just standing there. I'd written enough already to go into any of that, but in truth, I have no idea how that'd happen. It makes sense the Kil'Jaeden would do something like that but the band of 25 people makes that more difficult to happen. The way Illidan dies, however, is not what I was focusing on. What would you have him do? Run away? I think that would be more demoralizing than killing him, having Illidan flee with a tail bewteen his legs. Or would you have him stun the entire raid and yell out; "Hmmph, you are worth my time... I mean, you came into my castle and obliterated the stronger of my forces, but I'm not going to kill you, instead I'm going to stun you while I give this hauntingly tradional speech and that give you some epics afterwards."

That speech was filled with sarcrasm, so to those not practised in it I'll explain further. You've just invaded Illidan's home. You've killed all his lieutenants/generals/bodyguars/whatever he considers them. And he's gonna love you for that (sorry, more sarcasm). So its kill or be killed...

Hordesupporter, your question is much easier to answer. Racial leaders are a different story, and we all know that, your just trying to find any scrap of information that you can use against be, albeit it valid information. My answer may be a little disappointing. Quests. If we won't agree that raid monsters do die, then we have to agree that what players accomplish in the outside world DOES really happen. Players ACTUALLY do help the Argent Dawn with their cause in the plaguelands. Night Elves ACTUALLY do help cull the numbers of tigers in teldrassil. Sure, the tigers are always there and Argent Dawn always needs help, but that's to compensate for all the other players out there. If we don't, at the very least, believe that quests in WoW's outside world make a difference, than WoW in itself is a giant lie. Our players are in a totally abstract universe from the official WoW lore. We don't even exist. When thrall dies there is no lasting impace on the world. He respawns quickly, as does all his guards. Similar to other leaders. When you kill C'thun, you hand in your quest to the brood of nozdormu, and they give you a reward. Then they praise you for having the ability to kill a god. When you kill nefarion or onyxia you hang their heads from Stormwind or Orgrimmar! You can do this a thousand times, but that doesn't mean it hasn't been done. Repetance is required for online games, as is realism and knowledge that your actually doing something, rather than running around making not a tiny difference in the entire world.

Much longer than I intended. -Maarz.

To expand on Hordesupporter's point, lore characters killed for quests in WoW are listed as "killable" until the quest is removed and their death is confirmed as final on all realms. Maarz, sign your posts properly, please, and you're right- it's entirely possible that your prediction will be correct. It's also possible that other predictions are correct. And Players WILL fight Illidan, just not kill him. If Kil'jaeden does kill him afterwards, we still put down "killable". As far as I can see, that's the end of the argument. --Ragestorm (talk · contr) 17:12, 23 January 2007 (EST)

Illidan is warcraft's second most popular character. Frozen throne; they did a lot of work on his appearance, he was in Frozen throne cinematic, he was also in the burning crusade cinematic. to lose Illidan is to lose many warcraft fans. I think blizzard experimented with his death, but were too smart to let arthus kill him. just like Kel'thuzad he will be defeated but a possibility of his return will be ensured--Noman953

Blizzard or some unoffical source said you don't KILL Illidan in TBC, you actually destroy or demolish some of his plans... I think Blizzard is somewhat eager to kill him but the fans don't allow such thing. In my oponion, killing Illidan is the worst thing blizzard can do. In a matter of fact, if he dies, there are only the aspects to defeat Arthas, and we didn't see them since Day of the Dragon\The Last Guardian (don't know about the second, didn't read it...) but it'll be a huge mistake... i think Illidan and Arthas will have another encounter, with a mass WoW event or a 40 to 80 men instance... --Creator 08:08, 25 January 2007 (EST)