It says here that Van Cleef worked on rebuilding Stormwind after its destruction at the end of the second war.. wasn't it destroyed at the end of the first war? --Anticrash 09:50, 6 Dec 2005 (EST) I guess it means they worked on rebuilding Stormwind at the end of the second war, while it was destroyed at the end of the first. So it had taken a while before they started :) --Tinkerer

WHY did the Defias suddenly turn from architects to thieves? --Maxman280, 27 Jun 2006 (EST)

It kinda tells how Defias turned from masons to thieves in the second paragraph of the history text. Schmidt 01:55, 28 June 2006 (EDT)

Survival RumorsEdit

I've seen the rumor go about fairy often that VanCleef survives to this day, and thought it deserved a mention (at least here, so you guys can decide if it should be mentioned or not in the article). Basically it follows that there was such a huge fuss made about VanCleef (by Mathias Shaw, no less) and his abilities as to masquerade, etc. (basically keep his identity secret), so some people speculate that it isn't VanCleef we kill in the Deadmines, but one of his lackeys, and that VanCleef manages to this day elude the authorities.

It's nothing more than a rumor, but seeing as how VanCleef rocked and the whole Defias storyline was fairly kick-ass to boot, it would be a nice way for Blizzard to keep it going without it seeming cheesy (I can't remember how many times Shaw stressed that VanCleef is uber-dangerous and is "his equal").
My 2 copper. --Pure.Wasted 12:24, 3 October 2006 (EDT)
As far as im concerned this makes a lot of sense as the dude in stormwind who gets the letter thinks that he was a exbert fighter- to me that dosent sound like 21 (elite) --Bazza 08:50, 29 May 2007 (UTC)
Thats why he wears the double wears the mask! Brilliant thoughts. --Imperial
Although I agree with the praise for the rumor (a return from the dead storyline would be great), I have to say one thing: according the article, VanCleef was known for wearing his mask; it wasn't a recently adopted tactic by the man in the Deadmines. WoWScholar 2008-04-18T01:35:25
And that would also explain why a level 21 was the head of an organization with level 35s in it. Adranis 21:15, 11 January 2008 (UTC)
Level in-game doesn't always mean lore level. VanCleef could be as strong as any boss, in lore, but he's part of an early he has to be defeatable. User:Coobra/Sig3 22:33, 11 January 2008 (UTC)
The problem is that you bring back his head, and the guy goes "yep, that's Van Cleef." Unless the fake Van Cleef looked identical to the real one, it'd be hard for that kind of evidence to feel anyone, ESPECIALLY Matthias Shaw, since they grew up together. -- Dark T Zeratul 07:53, 18 April 2008 (UTC)
Ah, but hear what the article has to say: "The man’s overall appearance is so common, in fact, that he would be almost instantly forgettable if not for the spotless, scarlet bandana fastened around his neck." And concerning Shaw, you deliver the head to Stoutmantle, not to Shaw. Shaw probably even doesn't get a look at the head. And Marzon mentions something about orders from VanCleef. Wouldn't he know if the real one is dead or not? Xavius, the Satyr Lord 16:07 and 18:47, 1 May 2008 (UTC)
His face may be common and forgettable, but that's really only going to apply to people who don't know him and just see him in passing. As I said, Matthias Shaw grew up with Van Cleef. Plus they've got that Defias traitor at Sentinel Hill. Either of them would have been able to properly identify the head. -- Dark T Zeratul 20:18, 1 May 2008 (UTC)
Excuse me for my ignorance, but when does Shaw get to look at VanCleef's head? You hand the quest in to Stoutmantle. And perhaps the traitor is not a traitor after all? Xavius, the Satyr Lord (talk) 11:18, 11 May 2008 (UTC)

To continue the missing king storyline VanCleef is going to reappear saying (when you encounter him again) "Ha killing my double only made it easier for me to move around". Then Hogger is going to run up and start fighting while VanCleef watches. User:Coobra/Sig3 20:01, 1 May 2008 (UTC)

What?--SWM2448 20:08, 1 May 2008 (UTC)
Yea.. Hogger is going to be replaced with Hogger Jr. and Hogger will appear in a 25man raid, as the first boss that is working for the Defias. VanCleef will be the last boss, this won't happen to the great sea xpak however, and the raid will take place on a ship. It will be like Gruul's Lair, you start on the deck and work your way inside. User:Coobra/Sig3 20:54, 1 May 2008 (UTC)
/me slaps Coobra. Kirkburn  talk  contr 21:20, 1 May 2008 (UTC)
Just watch, you'll see =). User:Coobra/Sig3 21:47, 1 May 2008 (UTC)
VanCleef does, indeed, survive to this day. I distinctly remember killing him when I was much lower level, but I hear people all the time asking for help killing him. QED!--ClemSnide (talk) 02:37, 5 August 2009 (UTC)

Lee VanCleefEdit

Possible inspiration, at least the name? VanCleef isn't that ordinary, you know. Xavius, the Satyr Lord (talk) 23:28, 30 July 2008 (UTC)

Obvious inspiration. -- Dark T Zeratul (talk) 05:12, 31 July 2008 (UTC)

VanCleef's outfitEdit

In case anyone's interested, his outfit is the Stormshroud Armor (set) created by leatherworkers. He's actually wearing the Madcap's Outfit. Check yourself. BobNamataki (talk) 09:01, October 5, 2009 (UTC)

Heroic DeadminesEdit

Personally, I would think that assuming Van Cleef would be absent from Heroic Deadmines would be a greater assumption than assuming he'll be present. Hell, without Van Cleef, they'd probably have to completely redo the rest of the instance to account for the Defias being defeated, at which point it's less a heroic instance and more a brand new instance. -- Dark T Zeratul (talk) 20:06, November 9, 2009 (UTC)

Giving old instances heroics doesn't redo the lore, just gives a reason for people to do the places again, or for the first time for some, with a bit of challenge and excitement. So I agree the cataclysm section in this article should be rewritten. User:Coobra/Sig4 20:35, November 9, 2009 (UTC)

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