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This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the Dragonmaw clan article. | |
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Leader
Nekros was never a leader of the Dragonmaw Clan, although the version on the WoW site states this. Zuluhed the Whacked was in fact the leader of the Dragonmaw from at least the beginning of the Second War to the Clan's destruction. Nekros was a Warlock that Zuluhed put in charge of controlling the dragons (since the Demon Soul responded better to Warlock magic than Shamanistic ritual) and as such his narrative was the main Orcish one in the Day of the Dragon, leading to this misconception.
Was it really Dragonmaw clan?
I have a really good question. Considering the Dragonmaw clan was native to Draenor, that must mean that Dragons existed there as well as in Azeroth. Or did they form that clan during the wars against the alliance?
Perhaps cratures such as nether rays inspired the term of "dragon" in outland. Wyverns may have also been native to both worlds since the Mag'har and Mok'nathal camps have enormus wyverns as flying transport mounts. Their size implies that a rather larger breed of wyverns alredy lived in Draenor since wyverns or other animals were never domesticated in the Horde. Nor would there have been time to breed or domesticate them considering the very recent discovery of the Mag'har and Mok'nathal. User:Baldr 9-17-2007
- As to the wyverns, they cold be a gift from the Horde or just rexxar.--SWM2448 16:32, 23 September 2007 (UTC)
Yes but if you visit Mag'har or Mok'nathal villages, their wyverns are enormus, so there had to be wyverns in draenor since the horde doesn't domesticate. Baldr 18:51, 23 September 2007 (UTC)
- Domesticate no, but they do have an 'alliance' with them. It would not be too hard to say "please sit over here on this new planet".--SWM2448 19:17, 23 September 2007 (UTC)
But then how come that a Mok'nathal wyvern is bigger than my kodo? Baldr 00:49, 25 September 2007 (UTC)
In 'Rise of the Horde'
Ner'zhul specifically mentioned the Dragonmaw when he first tried to rally the orc clans, implying that they existed long before the Dark Portal was opened. But as of the release of BC, we haven't heard about 'dragons' on Draenor other than the nether-warped blacks. The name could refer to another draconic creature; netherwyrms, perhaps? (User:Lex_Blue)
- I actually caught that reference too, as I'm about half way through the book. It would seem that there were definitely wyrms on Draenor prior to the end of Warcraft II.--User:Sky2042/Sig 21:10, 9 April 2007 (EDT)
- When building the dark portal they say that they had never seen the creature on top of it, the dragon head came from the vision Medivh gave Gul'dan, and they say that the cloaked figures are unknown too... Is this an error? I thought they figures were Deathwing and post-warlock convertion Ner'zhuls...(see page 344 in RotH)--Sandwichman2448 21:59, 9 April 2007 (EDT)
- My personal opinion? I think Titans and possibly other space faring races have previously seeded Draenor sometime in millenias past. We already know Titans seeded much of the universe as stated in Warcraft III manual, though its never have been specific which worlds exactly, with the exception of Azeroth. However, look at the amount of life shared between both planets? Wolves have existed on both worlds, even before Orcs crossed over to Azeroth (although they brought over bigger varieties such as Worgs). Scorpions, Squirrels, and other small criters exist on both worlds. Elephantine creatures exist on both worlds. Both worlds have their own version of raptors, wyverns, hydras, and Basilisks, etc. Both worlds have humanoid lobster species. Both worlds have gazelle like species. Plus its probably worth mentioning that both worlds have major humanoid species with essentially basically the overall same physical features, that can procreate to create half-orcs.
- Both worlds share elementals that speak Kalimag (although one was evil and the others, "spirits" seem benevolent). We even know of a forest of ancients that once existed on the world sometime in the centuries past, before Cenarions ever established outposts in the world from a certain quest line in the game.
- I've heard there are even some quests that hint at Old Gods, and Qiraji influence on Draenor as well.
- As for Dragonmaw? I'm pretty sure they were it was said that they existed on Draenor before orcs came to Azeroth in Warcraft III manual anyways, with no explanation. Also at one time there were supposed to be more dragonflights than the five we know about, its possible that there might have been some on Draenor at one time... But who knows?
- Speaking of other clans, what about Blackrock clan? Blackrock mountain existed before the Orcs came to Azeroth[1], and yet so did Blackrock orc clan. I find that to be somewhat stranger, :).Baggins 22:11, 9 April 2007 (EDT)
- Golden is called on at the last miniute so to say. She has no time to recearch or edit. I feel bad for her, but still dislike her work. She does not have the 'Knaak'.--SWM2448 18:17, 11 June 2007 (UTC)
To Baggins' remark about Blackrock Mountain: I think Blackrock Mountain was so named because the Blackrock clan took up residence there. Before then, it was just some old pile of rocks in the middle of the mountains.
Origin of the name = speculation?
How is it speculation? "Speculation" implies that I am voicing a theory with no solid evidence or grounding to back it up. All "Origin of the name?" is is just some interesting, factual, tidbits.~ Peregrine
I don't really even think the origin oddness is at all a problem. the point is: the name is cool and awsome. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Cormundo (talk · contr).
Nek'rosh "Skullcrusher"??
Is there any in-game or lore evidence that Nek'rosh inherited his father's titular name? If not, then 'Skullcrusher' should be removed from his name.--Djaevlenselv 18:37, 6 July 2007 (UTC)
- Skullcrusher is not an affectation, it is the name of the "family" as it were. Just like Orgrim Doomhammer's title/last name was passed down from father to son for generations, so we can assume Skullcrusher was. ~ Peregrine
- Why would you assume this Peregrine? Again, I am asking for in-game or lore evidence. I have not read 'Rise of the Horde' so you'll have to tell me: Were any of Telkar's ancestors also named Doomhammer? And did any of them not wield the actual 'Doomhammer'? Because if either of these is not the case, then isn't it every bit as possible that they took their title/surname from the weapon and not the other way around? Now, the 'Doomhammers' may be a particular case, as it is possible, even if my reasoning is accepted, that the hammer was passed down in the family so long that adopting its name as a title might have been second nature and so become akin to a surname.
- What makes me think that all of these are 'titles' rather than family names is a number of things: 1) All of the names in question are in Common and not Orcish making them sound more like titles. 2) A number of highly prolific orcs whom you'd expect to have their full names revealed are never portrayed with last names including Ner'zhul, Gul'dan and Durotan, making it likely that these are in fact titles that are taken by individuals after specific accomplishments. Again the 'Doomhammers' may be an exception for the reasons I explained above. 3) My final and strongest argument. No less than three orcs are clear evidence to the theory I present: Kilrogg Deadeye was named so on account of having lost his eye, it is a title, not an inherited name. Kargath Bladefist 'earned the sobriquet "Bladefist" after he cut off his own hand when he reached the station of grunt, replacing it with a deadly scythe', it is a title, not an inherited name. Grom Hellscream was named because of his battlecry. While not stated explicitly, it is strongly implied in Lord of the Clans, page 133: '...and Thrall realized that Grom Hellscream had gotten his name for a very good reason'. Again, it is a title, not an inherited name.--Djaevlenselv 11:50, 8 July 2007 (UTC)
Bad Speculation in main article
Under the "World of Warcraft" section, it says that the remaining dragonmaw orcs are likely by the side of Neltharion the Earth-Warder. I am deleting it for two reasons:
1) I WOULD just change it for this, but right now Neltharion is Deathwing the Destroyer, he is no longer the Earth-Warder.
2) This has absolutely no basis in fact or even hinted-at facts, the only evidence we have that Deathwing may still be alive and operating are a few obscure references to "The Master" by Lady Sinestra.