The issue with this is that in the book, they describe deathwing "being killed", and then he resurfaces, so what you stated could not be quite right.--Haddon 17:34, 4 April 2007 (EDT)

I think it is safe to assume that Day of the Dragon happand before WC2: Beyond the Dark Portal, Seeing as Zuluhed and the Dragonmaw orcs are killable NPCs. After their defeat at Grim Batol they retreated back to the portal and through it. If DotD happand after BtDP, there would be no way for Zuluhed and his clan to get back as the portal was not opened after BtDP until WoW:TBC. --Falconon 22:17, 28 May 2007 (UTC)

This page almost needs to be rewritten, I think, with some new information that has come to light. Given that the whole thing is speculation, one should really take Lady Sinestra's comments into consideration. She hints, very strongly, that Deathwing is alive and well. She could be lying, of course, which is why this remains as speculation and not as hard fact. As for Zuluhed and the Dragonmaw, we know beyond the shadow of a doubt now that they made it back into Draenor - and we know they weren't just lying low until the reopening of the Portal. So Day of the Dragon had to take place before Beyond the Dark Portal. And whatever fate BtDP had set in store for Deathwing, remember that a significant amount of retcon has gone into efect since that date. All this really must be taken into account, I feel. And if people on Azeroth [including Lady Onyxia herself] had assumed, after Day of the Dragon, that Deathwing was defeated, well, none of the Alliance Expedition who fought him on Draenor returned to Azeroth to contradict them, now, did they. While this might be stretching it for some, it also nails the coffin shut for me: if Deathwing was defeated by his fellow Aspects, what better way to hide his survival from them than to hide on another world altogether? Hekirou 17:33, 8 August 2007 (UTC)

I'd just like to point out in regards to the "Deathwing dying in BTDP" comment - if you go by that logic, EVERY Alliance and Horde hero died in that game. One thing to remember is that Beyond the Dark Portal was not *actually* developed by Blizzard - they outsourced it to Cyberlore Studios. So while I'm sure Blizzard was keeping an eye on the lore and storyline aspects of the game, the actual map design was not something they handled. And so, unlike Tides of Darkness where you saw heroes die and they stayed dead, Beyond the Dark Portal frequently threw every and all heroes into situations where you had to kill them for missions.

As far as Deathwing goes, yes you "kill him" to get the Skull of Gul'dan, but this is of course a game lacking triggers. The developers had no other way to remove units from the map. I suspect if they could go back and do it again with triggers, they'd have Deathwing narrowly escape or fake his death somehow.

But even ignoring all that. Before even considering him alive as being a retcon, remember he was intended to be in WarCraft Adventures. This would have been before the need for retcons. On top of which, they even put him in Blackrock Spire which was in keeping with *both* Beyond the Dark Portal *and* World of WarCraft (afterall, Nefarian was taking over his father's work... Blackwing Lair was Deathwing's lair first). So obviously Blizzard always considered him as still being alive regardless.

Anyways, as Hekirou points out this page needs updating - at the very least with the fact we know he's alive and probably not to rely so much on saying he died in BTDP. But yes, otherwise it's exactly right, and frankly, I think the Beyond the Dark Portal novel should finally clear this whole mess up (hopefully). WarlockSoL 08:00, 2 September 2007 (UTC)

Shadows & Light discusses the battle in Draenor actually, points out Alleria only thought she defeated him.Baggins 08:03, 2 September 2007 (UTC)
Right, I wasn't saying the event itself didn't happen. Just that you can't go literally by what happens in-game. You kill Deathwing because that's the only way the game has to remove him from the map. WarlockSoL 03:01, 3 September 2007 (UTC)

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