Greymane and Trollbane's Titles
I think it's a mistake to assume they went by the title King, since of the other human leaders, only one was a king. Lothar was the Regent Lord, Proudmoore was an Admiral, Perenolde was a Lord, and of course Dalaran has the Kirin Tor. In any case, unless they are called King in a game or other work, we shouldn't presume.--Aeleas 10:37, 16 August 2006 (EDT)
- "Proudmoore was an Admiral" Lord Admiral. (wink)
- "Perenolde was a Lord" Yes, that's the title used of him in Warcraft II, but wasn't he also called Baron (not in the game)?
- "In any case, unless they are called King in a game or other work, we shouldn't presume" Well, Thoras' son's title is Prince. Of course, that doesn't mean that his father had to be a king. Theron.
I'm not sure about Perenolde's title. If he was referred to Baron in some sources, that can certainly be noted in his article.--Aeleas 18:59, 16 August 2006 (EDT)
- I'm not sure about Perenolde, but I belive that Thoras Trollbane was a king. Theron.
Northeron
I'm also not sure I agree with referring to the Wildhammer dwarves of Aerie Peak as the nation of Northeron. If we take Northeron to be an old name for the Hinterlands, it covers much more than the dwarves' territory, which includes only Aerie Peak.--Aeleas 10:41, 16 August 2006 (EDT)
- "I'm also not sure I agree with referring to the Wildhammer dwarves of Aerie Peak as the nation of Northeron. If we take Northeron to be an old name for the Hinterlands, it covers much more than the dwarves' territory, which includes only Aerie Peak." Are you sure? http://www.wowwiki.com/Northeron . Has it really been stated that the Wildhammer dwarves held only the Aerie Peak? Theron.
In WoW they only hold Aerie Peak, with the rest of the Hinterlands (the vast majority) being occupied by a high elf lodge and many troll villages and monuments. The War2 manual merely says they are from Northeron, with no further elaboration. Unless there is another source which uses the term to describe their nation, I don't think we should use it in that way.--Aeleas 18:59, 16 August 2006 (EDT)
- Ok, I think you are right. Theron.
- Its possible that the old nation of Northeron included Grim Batol region as well, as that used to be the Wildhammer's old home, granted they are on seperate continents, or could have been the old name for the Grim Baton region before they moved to the Hinterlands.Baggins 22:15, 1 December 2006 (EST)
Lord - not an official title in this case
I don't think that Lord was any human leader's official title, but rather an general naming used of people who were in high position. For example, King Terenas Menethil II was never called King in the game Warcraft II, he was called Lord. Also, the term kingdom is used of Alterac and Gilneas in World of Warcraft. --Theron the Just 16:09, 20 October 2006 (EDT)
- The term kingdom is also used in the War2 manual to describe Kul Tiras, yet it's ruler is given the title "Grand Admiral". Stromgarde is also a kingdom, but Trollbane is referred to as "lord of Stromgarde". Terenas, as king, may well have been the only one to use that title - he was called both "Lord Terenas" and "King Terenas" in the game and manual - but the others were not addressed as "King". It's not a question of guessing what their official titles were, or making presumptions about their systems of government, it's just a question of going by how they were addressed in the official sources. That's "Lord" for Perenolde and, for Greymane, no title was given that I am aware of.--Aeleas 17:35, 20 October 2006 (EDT)
"he was called both "Lord Terenas" and "King Terenas" in the game and manual" I know that he was called King in the manual, but I don't think the title was ever used in the game (By the way, I agree with you now about Thoras Trollbane's title). Regards, --Theron the Just 10:54, 8 November 2006 (EST)
- Actually in the Warcraft II manual, ruler of Kul Tiras is called "Lord Admiral". He doesn't become Grand Admiral until joins the Alliance.Baggins 22:09, 1 December 2006 (EST)
Leaders and representants of the Alliance nations.
Let's try to identify the people in the picture.
My opinion?
1. King Terenas Menethil II. 2. Representant of Stromgarde. 3. Regent Lord Anduin Lothar. 4. Grand Admiral Daelin Proudmoore. 5. Representant of Quel'thalas. 6. Representant of Alterac. 7. Representant of Dalaran. 8. Representant of Gilneas. 9. Representant of Khaz Modan.
Regards, --Theron the Just 11:05, 8 November 2006 (EST)
- To be fair to give alternate interpretations, 2, 6, and 8 if not representives, could be Trollbane, Perenolde, and Genn Greymane, and its possible that 4, could just be a representive of Kul Tiras and not Daelin. As that uniform seems to be common for fleet of Kul Tiras.Baggins 22:13, 1 December 2006 (EST)
Also the according to the RPG and even in World of Warcraft, it says that it was the leaders of the Lordaeron were at that meeting rather than just "Representives", for example;
"Lothar met with the leaders of the seven nations of Lordaeron...The Alliance of Lordaeron was formed."Template:Cite
or from the Alliance Player's Guide;
"King Terenas of Lordaeron calls the other human kings together to discuss the Horde and Stormwind."Template:Cite
or from the in-game book in World of Warcraft, The Alliance of Lordaeron;
"the leaders of the seven human nations met and agreed to unite in what would become known as the Alliance of Lordaeron."-Baggins 04:34, 8 December 2006 (EST)
"Lothar met with the leaders of the seven nations of Lordaeron...the Alliance of Lordaeron was formed."
The man from Dalaran cannot be it's leader. Dalaran is not ruled by a single person, but a goverment body that works much like a senate. Another ane of the errors the "guides" contain. --Theron the Just 21:29, 8 December 2006 (EST)
- Well actually Alliance Player's guide says that Antondidus is the closest that Dalaran has to a leader, and he is the leader of the council of the Kirin Tor. So by all intents that could be Antonidus.Baggins 21:32, 8 December 2006 (EST)
- Also, just to make sure are you forgetting the quote from the warcraft II manual;
- "Recounting terrible tales of destruction and carnage..., the Steward Lord Anduin Lothar convinced the sovereign of Lordaeron to unite themselves against the great threat. Despite much quereling and debate, the lords aquiesced to Lothar and Terenas, and agreed to unite their armies under the general command of Lothar himself."Template:CiteBaggins 21:36, 8 December 2006 (EST)
- For that matter if you just had one member of council of the Kirin Tor there you would infact have a "Dalaran Leader" there, by all technical definitions. Baggins 21:47, 8 December 2006 (EST)
"For that matter if you just had one member of council of the Kirin Tor there you would infact have a "Dalaran Leader" there, by all technical definitions." Pompey was in high position in the Roman Senate before the civil war between supporters of Caesar and the Republic started, but he was not ruler of the Roman Republic. An member of Kirin Tor can be concidered as one of Dalaran's head of states or "leaders", but not sole leader or ruler. Regards, --Theron the Just 21:56, 8 December 2006 (EST)
It can be interpreted that Antonidus was the "leader" of dalaran by being defacto leader of the council of kirin tor by some designers. Besides if you don't like the interpretation made by the creators of "Word of Warcraft" video game, or the rpgs take it up with Metzen if you want to. All I can do to remain NPOV, is only quote what official sources say, not make up my own opinions on the matter.Baggins 21:59, 8 December 2006 (EST)