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Airships vs Gunships Edit
- The Horde one does. The Alliance one uses rotors of all kinds. Are not also gunships attack helicopters? Regardless, I feel the page should affect Blizzard's usage (which likely has been abandoned for just 'gunship' so it is pointless anyway).-- 02:22, 21 August 2008 (UTC)
- If the only difference between the two was gas, wouldn't it be called a Gasship... they are both terms meaning the same thing, its no different than calling it a flying machine, sky-engine... or even a zeppelin. User:Coobra/Sig3 02:32, 21 August 2008 (UTC)
- It seems to have been changed without a counterpoint to this. Oh well, I do not feel like opening a can of worms this late. Who knows? He may be right.-- 02:49, 21 August 2008 (UTC)
- I listened to the gunship interview link. I never heard them say airship, just gunship. I don't know what they actually look like though, just that gnomish and goblin engineers worked on them. A flying machine covers both types. But under that category there are two types: gas types of aircraft and ones that don't need gas (not fuel gas but buoyant gas). A dirgible, zeppelin, and ballon are airships. A gyrocopter and biplane are not airships. Rolandius (talk - contr) 02:58, 21 August 2008 (UTC)
- I hope I don't have to bring up the warning about applying earth definitions to Warcraft Universe where definitions may not necessarily mean the same thing. However, if one wants to look at straightforward dictionary definitions airship just refers to a "lighter-than-air aircraft with propulsion and steering mechanisms"-Webster.com. It could more or less refer to several types of aircraft. Not all are zeppelins.Baggins (talk) 03:44, 21 August 2008 (UTC)
- Well not really. Airships are "lighter-than-air (buoyant) aircraft with propulsion and steering mechanisms". Your forgetting the buoyant part. It fits with WoW. There are flying machines (aircraft) of which there are two kinds. The ones that use gas and the ones that don't. Are you really saying a zeppelin is just like a gyrocopter and a biplane is the same thing as a scout balloon? Rolandius (talk - contr) 04:11, 21 August 2008 (UTC)
Actually, what I put was quote from Webster.com. Your quote is not the same as the one on Websters. But yes different dictionaries will give you different definitions.Baggins (talk) 04:15, 21 August 2008 (UTC)
- Ok so are you saying that airships are just like biplanes? Rolandius (talk - contr) 04:16, 21 August 2008 (UTC)
Biplanes are a kind of airships if you use Princeton's definition;
a steerable self-propelled aircraft
WordNet® 3.0, © 2006 by Princeton University.
- LOL Ok well I don't know I am going by this, which makes sense to me and looks like it works with WoW too, on Wikipedia.
"Aircraft fall into two categories: lighter-than-air (aerostats), and heavier-than-air (aerodynes). Aerostats use buoyancy to float in the air in much the same way that ships float on the water. They are characterized by one or more large gasbags or canopies, filled with a relatively low density gas such as helium, hydrogen or hot air, which is less dense than the surrounding air. When the weight of this is added to the weight of the aircraft structure, it adds up to the same weight as the air that the craft displaces. Heavier-than-air aircraft must find some way to push air or gas downwards, so that a reaction occurs (by Newton's laws of motion) to push the aircraft upwards. This dynamic movement through the air is the origin of the term aerodyne. There are two ways to produce dynamic upthrust: aerodynamic lift, and powered lift in the form of engine thrust.
So to put it simply they both can use propulsion and steering mechanisms. One uses a gas bag type item though. The other doesn't. So you have your airship, blimp, zeppelin, balloon, and dirigibles. Then you have your gyrocopter, biplane, triplane, and monoplanes. Does no one see the difference between these two groups or is it just me? Rolandius (talk - contr) 04:31, 21 August 2008 (UTC)
- You might have missed the WoWWiki rule that states that Wowwiki is not Wikipedia, or any other encyclopedia or dictionary.
- BTW, dirigibles, blimps, and zeppelins are all just alternate names of the same type of craft, although the terms originate from seperate countries, languages, or brand names. A steerable lighter than air craft. A balloon is seperate in that it isn't normally steerable.Baggins (talk) 04:39, 21 August 2008 (UTC)
- Well I know it isn't wikipedia but we have to get some definitions from somewhere. I just don't see where in lore it states that airships are not the buoyancy type of aircraft. It seems easy to me. Like the saying goes, "which one of these doesn't belong". You have airships, dirigibles, zeppelins, balloons, gyrocopters, biplanes, triplanes, and monoplanes. Don't you see some of these are different from some others? Rolandius (talk - contr) 04:50, 21 August 2008 (UTC)
- "we have to get some definitions from somewhere."
- Yes, WoWWiki policy is that definitions should come from official Warcraft sources or at least designer notes. Anything else would likely be speculation.
- If you can't find any definitions in official sources, then the page is likely even less than a stub & probably should be merged into another related article as a sidenote. ...or probably shouldn't exist at all do to "relevance" issues (remember we are not a dictionary website, and we aren't trying to define every single word used in a warcraft source).
- Ya, I actually put a merge tag in the airship page about 2 days ago or something. I am not sure what happens after that though. The only thing the page has is two sentences. One about airships being flying machines which everyone knows already. Another about zeppelins being airships. A third sentence I removed because it said gunships are airships. I went to the interview link and I didn't hear them mention airships unless I missed it. Does someone review the merge suggestion now or vote on it? Rolandius (talk - contr) 05:06, 21 August 2008 (UTC)
- Definitions aside, I feel this is my fault. 'Airship' was indeed not used in the interview, 'Gunship' was. I added that they were airships based on an unofficial preview (they were wrong in that respect), so it is NOT a term used in this context at all. Therefore, this conversation about the definition is irrelevant (and Blizzard's is supreme anyway). For those who do not know what they look like, the Horde one is a big spiky boat with two long zeppelin balloons on top and a massive gun in front and the Alliance one is a roundish boat with rotors all over, a bomb bay, and eagle head motif in the front and on the bridge in the back (little pictures of them can be seem on the Icecrown map BTW). Also, this page was created because someone left a dead link to it on flying machine.-- 17:38, 21 August 2008 (UTC)
Despite originating in a vile unofficial preview here, the gunships being airships in referenced offhand by Blizzard here (and less offhand here). Though I think the interview is more official.-- 01:37, 15 November 2008 (UTC)
- I think a gunship could be an airship as long as it has some kind of gas-filled bags that helps it stay in the air. It just means it is sort of like a zeppelin, which is an airship, but with firepower. I looked at that link for public transportation and they look like they have some king of gas-filled bags. It fits with everything else I have read which says zeppelins are airships. Rolandius (talk - contr) 02:53, 15 November 2008 (UTC)
- A gunship could be an airship as long as Blizzard says it can. The Alliance one does not use gas-filled bags.-- 03:51, 23 November 2008 (UTC)
- Well, the Ice Crown thing shows it may be an error, but if Blizzard says it, then it is true. A note can be put on how it would be wrong in the real world, but it is still said by them.-- 00:59, 29 November 2008 (UTC)
- Goodness... so much nonsense.
- Let me impart my infinite wisdom on this issue.
- An Airship = A Ship that flies in the air
- A Gunship = A Ship with Guns
- Therefore, an Airship with Guns still = Gunship
- Now, that makes things awefully easy doesn't it? --Invin Dranoel (talk) 18:18, 10 December 2008 (UTC)
- It makes things easy, but does it make it correct? :) I feel there is enough here to make some note in the article.-- 22:45, 10 December 2008 (UTC)
- You are half right Invin.
- An Airship does not = A Ship that flies in the air
- A Ship that flies in the air = An Aircraft.
- An Airship = An Aircraft that needs a type of bag with a type of gas to help it stay in the air
- A Gunship = An Aircraft with Guns
- Do you really think that the Gnomish bomber or Dwarven gyrocopter are airships? This is going by lore (pre-WotLK) and not just "infinite wisdom". Rolandius (talk - contr) 03:37, 11 December 2008 (UTC)
- Keep spite to a minimum (though 'infinite wisdom' is pushing it in some aspect). Somewhere this got way more controversial than it needed to be. I added a section that summarizes this debate.-- 22:40, 11 December 2008 (UTC)