Forum:The Lich King's head

Forums: Village pump → Warcraft lore → The Lich King's head

Who or what is in the Lich King's head? The lore seems inconsistent, and it is bugging me. This should probably be added to the main Lich King article once this is sorted out... perhaps at Arthas#Lich_King_of_the_Scourge.--SWM24 48 03:08, June 11, 2010 (UTC)

Information

In Warcraft III: Reign of Chaos, the Lich King is the altered spirit of Ner'zhul.

In Warcraft III: The Frozen Throne, the Lich King consists of Ner'zhul merged with Arthas Menethil into a single entity.

In Arthas: Rise of the Lich King, the Lich King consists of Ner'zhul, a small boy (later revealed to be Matthias Lehner), and Arthas Menethil in Nordic (vrykul?) garb.

Arthas kills both Ner'zhul and Matthias Lehner, making him the dominant personality within the Lich King, but without any good in him.

Arthas physically removed his heart and what is left of Matthias Lehner along with it, and Arthas' heart is later destroyed.

Uther's ghost says that "Arthas" still exists within "the Lich King", and is holding the Lich King back. Why there is still good in him is unexplained.

Arthas is killed, and the good part of him is freed. The Lich King still exists inside the helmet.

Bolvar merges with the Lich King.

At BlizzCon 2010, Metzen claims that "Ner'zhul is done."

Conclusions and Speculation

There seems to be a third entity, "The Lich King" existing inside Arthas' body. It likely came about when Arthas merged with Ner'zhul. Arthas: Rise of the Lich King implied that it was Ner'zhul, Arthas' good side, and Arthas' bad side, and that may still be true.

The good part of Arthas died thrice (twice if the first time was symbolic of the removal of the heart).

Ner'zhul died in Arthas: Rise of the Lich King.

"The Lich King" still exists, and is now within Bolvar.

Conspiracy time: Uther the Lightbringer and Terenas Menethil II were lying in some way.

Conspiracy time: The second Matthias Lehner was actually Yogg-Saron. That would explain how the heart was evil and Matthias Lehner was (apparently) good at the same time, but would not explain why the heart needed to be removed.

Comments

Ner'zhul may or may not actually be dead, depending on how literally that scene is meant to be taken. It seemed very metaphorical and symbolic to me, and could simply have been Arthas mentally suppressing Ner'zhul, leading to him still being a part of the Lich King even after Bolvar takes control. -- Dark T Zeratul (talk) 03:17, June 11, 2010 (UTC)

Honestly? I think Blizz just lost track of all these little bits and pieces and just kept trying to rewrite the lore from scratch, as a result we end up with the tangled mess which we have today. Personally, I like the idea that Ner'zhul is still alive (cause he is one of the greatest Orc characters EVER). Realisticly, the Lich King, was always Ner'zhul, just with his body destroyed (slowly and painfully) and his shamanistic powers, backed by deominc taint, refocused on necromancy. A powerful being trapped within ice from the nether, sitting atop the roof of the world, how could anyone just take that role? It's not a role, it is the soul of Ner'zhul and all his power. So yeah, my vote is for Arthas wasn't the champion Ner'zhul thought he would be, so he sat back and let Arthas get himself killed so a new champion could be taken. I'm also betting Bolvar wasn't his first choice either, pretty sure he would have loved to be able to dual-wield Froustmourne AND The Ashbringer, but Bolvar discovered the plan, he saved Tirion and Azeroth with his sacrafice and shall always be remembered for it. :) Ok, i'ma shut up now :P

Max Krist (talk contribs) 09:29, June 11, 2010 (UTC)

Best I can tell is that the "evil" in the Lich King was always Ner'zhul and never Arthas, him being the part of the entity preventing the Scourge from overrunning Azeroth. Remember that Kil'jaedan ripped his physical being asunder leaving only his spirit in the armor. Thus Ner'zhul had no true "life" left and you can't kill that which has no life. HA!AhotahThunderhorn (talk) 20:43, June 13, 2010 (UTC)

Oh and one more thing, Bolvar may very well have lost all his righteousness after the whole dragonfire and torture stuff and thus MORE vulnerable to the corruption of the vengeful Ner'zhul than Arthas ever was. Let's not forget the whole time he was a pawn to a certain dragon so what does that say about his willpower? In other words, Arthas may turn out to have been a "nicer" Lich King than what Bolvar is going to be.AhotahThunderhorn (talk) 20:50, June 13, 2010 (UTC)

Cannot Chris Metzen give us a brief summary of what the hell actually happened. So we can move on with life! xD amagawd... --Mirdamor (talk) 15:43, July 9, 2010 (UTC)

Another Interpretation

I disagree with the conclusion that "The Lich King" is an entity distinct from Ner'zhul, Arthas, or Bolvar (rather than a title each of them has used). I'd like to present a different interpretation, beginning with Uther's statements in the Halls of Reflection.

Uther: Arthas is merely a presence within the Lich King's mind. A dwindling presence...

In this case, I believe Uther was using "Arthas" to refer to the man he and Jaina knew (as he was prior to taking up Frostmourne), and "the Lich King" to refer to the current Arthas (one corrupted by the loss of his soul and removal of his heart). He otherwise uses them interchangeably (as do most other characters).

After the battle, Uther, Muradin, and Jaina speak well of Arthas. They don't seem to hold him responsible for what he did after being cursed. It makes sense that Uther would want to make some distinction between the Arthas he trained and the Lich King Arthas.

Uther: I suspect that the piece of Arthas that might be left inside the Lich King is all that holds the Scourge from annihilating Azeroth.

Uther doesn't say there's "good" or "humanity" left in him - nor should there be, after he purged himself of such things. Arthas was being held back by a piece of his old personality, but it wasn't anything altruistic. He wasn't restraining the Scourge out of the goodness of his missing heart.

What held the Lich King back was Arthas' pride.

Arthas intended to conquer the world eventually, but first he wanted to see the world's greatest heroes follow in his footsteps. To prove they could be corrupted, just as he was. That had been his plan all along, from the moment he attacked Stormwind and Orgrimmar. That's why he always spared those who foiled his plans and why he allowed them to grow stronger. To Arthas, everything that happened in Northrend was part of a game. It was a twisted version of what Tirion did with the Crusader's Coliseum.

Interview:

1UP: Arthas Menethil, once the noble crown prince of Lordaeron and Paladin of the Silver Hand -- now the all-powerful Lich King, bent on turning the entire world into an army of zombie slaves. And he could, if he so chose -- push the figurative button, and every man, woman, and child in the world would be part of his army of the damned. So what's stopping him, really?
Chris Metzen: Arthas thinks it'd be funny if we all did it for him. He fought the good fight, fought as hard as he could, and ultimately he went nuts up in the far north. And the bad guy used him as the hammer. The bad guy sent him home to kill his dad and kill his people... and loose the plague on everything he ever fought to protect. And all these crusading heroes, with all their epic gear and all their good intentions and all their nobility and all that horses***, flood into the far north... and he's pretty much there to reel 'em in.

Teaser trailer:

The Lich King: In the end, all that awaits you is death. Only then will you understand - you've been following in my footsteps all along.

Final battle:

The Lich King yells: No question remains unanswered. No doubts linger. You are Azeroth's greatest champions! You overcame every challenge I laid before you. My mightiest servants have fallen before your relentless onslaught, your unbridled fury... Is it truly righteousness that drives you? I wonder.
The Lich King yells: You trained them well, Fordring. You delivered the greatest fighting force this world has ever known... right into my hands -- exactly as I intended. You shall be rewarded for your unwitting sacrifice.
The Lich King begins to cast a resurrection spell.
The Lich King yells: Watch now as I raise them from the dead to become masters of the Scourge. They will shroud this world in chaos and destruction. Azeroth's fall will come at their hands -- and you will be the first to die.
The Lich King laughs.
The Lich King yells: I delight in the irony.

The Lich King's arrogance and flair for the dramatic were pieces of the old Arthas. They weren't the good parts of his personality - those had been lost - but they were parts of him nonetheless. They are what drove the Lich King to act the way he did throughout WotLK.

Conclusions:

Kil'jaeden destroyed Ner'zhul's body and affixed his soul to the Helm of Domination, which granted him incredible powers. He sealed the helm inside the Frozen Throne.
Arthas shattered the Frozen Throne and put the helm on his head, allowing Ner'zhul's spirit into his mind.
Inside this shared consciousness were Arthas (the death knight), Ner'zhul (the orc), and Matthias (a manifestation of what little good remained in Arthas after Frostmourne took his soul). Arthas spent several years reflecting on his life, then destroyed Matthias.
Once Matthias was gone, Ner'zhul expressed his desire to become "one glorious being", neither Arthas nor Ner'zhul. Arthas destroyed him as well. "No we. No one tells me what to do. I've got everything I need from you -- now the power is mine and mine alone. Now there is only I. I am the Lich King. And I am ready."
Arthas cut out his heart. Those who touched it could speak with an echo of Matthias, but as Tirion says after seeing the heart, "Only shadows from the past remain. There's nothing left to redeem!"
Arthas held back the Scourge, not because there was still good left in him, but because he was intent on testing and corrupting Azeroth's greatest heroes before he unleashed his counterattack.
Arthas' plan was moments from success when it was foiled by the unexpected destruction of Frostmourne. After being rendered helpless by thousands of vengeful souls, Arthas was slain.
Bolvar Fordragon gained the power once wielded by Arthas (and Ner'zhul before him) by having the Helm of Domination placed on his head.

Thus: