The Line Edit

Nordi, you are a lunatic. You blatantly told me you stole 'The Line' from another website when I joined Brotherhood of the Dawn. It was right there at the top of the forum thread you started to house those paragraphs of text. Stop lying. Baenhoof (talk) 14:33, November 6, 2012 (UTC)

Who is this "Nordi" that you speak of. --Gengar orange 22x22Beware the sneaky smile! Fandyllic (talk · contr) 6 Nov 2012 5:38 PM Pacific

Deletion vote Edit


  1. Delete Jokerscall (talk) 13:11, November 5, 2012‎ - (Nominated.)
  1. Keep Kaemrys (talk) 09:24, November 7, 2012 (UTC) - (Based on comments below.)
  2. Keep KaddyMee 04:24, November 8, 2012 (UTC) - (no comment)
  3. Keep Xrailax (talk) 04:14, November 12, 2012 (UTC) - (I am the real Xrith and don't like to be used to trash people I have the utmost respect and love for)


Hello Fandyllic,

I would like to report a guild page that currently is considered inactive and disbanded. The page in question is listed here Guild:Cheshire Cats (Sisters_of_Elune_US).

According to the guild page policy:

Disbanded guilds
Articles about disbanded or non-existent guilds qualify for speedy deletion. Guilds are considered to be disbanded if there are fewer than ten players in it on the official Armory or if it does not appear under the name indicated by the WoWWiki article on the Armory. If your guild has disbanded but you want to archive the article, please move it to the main author's User: namespace, or the server's namespace, and remove {{Guild}} and any guild-specific category.
Pages for renamed guilds or guilds which have undergone a server transfer should be moved to the new correct name.

The guild has only 5 members in it. The guild is only level 4 and all characters in it are level 85. After the recent expansion the level cap was raised to 90. The members of this guild have not logged on in some time. The guild website listed on the wiki page has not only changed domains but also been taken down due to copyright infringement and pornographic terms of service violations for Proboards.

If you would like to know more information feel free to email me at —This unsigned comment is by Jokerscall (talkcontribs) 13:15, November 5, 2012‎. Please sign your posts with ~~~~!

I will tag the guild for deletion and it should get deleted at some point. --Gengar orange 22x22Beware the sneaky smile! Fandyllic (talk · contr) 5 Nov 2012 1:36 PM Pacific


Not vandalism. Simply reporting the issue. The copyright that was violated was mine. I contact the Wikia support email and a Sean McGilvray from Wikia Community Support refereed me to you. If you look on the armory you will find all the information I had reported is true. There are only 5 members in the guild, the guild has not been active or logged in for some time and no members have leveled past 85 seen the launch of this expansion. The listed website on the wiki page is indeed inactive. I have several members from the original guild in question who have reported to me of the take down of the site back in 2011.

Below is the screenshots I had taken when looking up the guild through the armory.

"The Line" and "The Simple truth" are both items under my copyright. After reviewing your policies with disbanded guilds, it would seem to be much easier to resolve the matter by simply reporting the guild as disbanded for deletion and leave the legal matter at that.

(Jokerscall (talk) 22:01, November 5, 2012 (UTC))

What do "The Line" and "The Simple truth" (which I highly doubt you can copyright, but I can ask my sister who's a lawyer, if you want to push it) have to do with deleting a guild page on WoWWiki? Unless the copyrighted material appears on WoWWiki, what you're doing amounts to harassment, in my mind. I also don't enforce ludicrous copyright claims.
Also, I don't know the history of the guild (nor do I really want to) and there is an equal possibility that the deletion request was prompted by disgruntled ex-guild members (of which I have had to deal with many of). WoWWiki does not care if no one has logged into WoW in a million years, if they have a valid guild on and they want to maintain a guild page on their guild, that is fine.
If you see inaccuracies, please feel free to remove them. If you point out provable inaccuracies that someone keeps adding back to the guild page, I can ban the user, but your reasoning sounds very suspicious to me. --Gengar orange 22x22Beware the sneaky smile! Fandyllic (talk · contr) 5 Nov 2012 2:14 PM Pacific

This wiki page is being used to harass me and defame me against my copyright in an inflammatory way. If anyone is being harassed it is me. Here is a break down.

The simply truth listed on this page no longer links to the "source" site due to the take down. The simple truth so titled is the same as my copywritten material though the contents was different. This is the bases of there argument that it existed before the completion of my work in 2009. With the source site gone, nothing proves or disproves there argument. This argument does not hold up in court what so ever. It is however very annoying and pestorsome that these squacking individuals will not stop bad mouthing me.

When it comes to the line. That is in fact taken from my copyright. The line never appeared on the wiki page till after Oct 10th 2009. The same year that my work was completed.

Here is the link to the US copyright office and my registration number.

Registration number: TXu001823505

If I could attach the a copy of the document for your review I would. However I can not attach attachments obviously due to the nature of the wiki structure.

This whole bashing campaign is between myself and another individual so named Kaemrys. Whom has no affiliation with Chesire Cats at all. The sole reason this page is being used against me is to back up his ego. I forced enjin, a different hosting company to take down my work due to his use of it without my permission. He obtained this material due to the fact we had co-lead a guild in World of Warcraft and upon my leaving he had saved all the material and work I had invested into the guild and used it for his own when he moved to Guild Wars 2. Which forced me to take legal action in order to protect my work.

After reviewing your policies and my knowledge of this guilds disbandenment. I requested to have the page deleted. Not only would it follow with WoWwiki's policies on disbanded guilds it would also deflate Kaemrys argument and get this monstrous drama off my back so myself, and my guild could simply finally put this old dead horse to rest.

I do not take personal enjoyment out of involving WoWwiki in this drama. If you feel my explanation doesn't merit the deletion of the old now disbanded Chesire Cats page. Then simply remove the speedy deletion tag and I will speak with the Wikia legal department. This is the honest truth of the matter and a frustrating ordeal I have had to fight with for 3 solid months. This site is the last remaining "proof" he thinks he has over me. In court it does not hold up. All this boils down to honestly is trying to shut up an individual who I want to prove can not continue to bull, push and dehumanize me over the internet over something barely even remotely related to the actual argument/drama between us.

(Jokerscall (talk) 22:54, November 5, 2012 (UTC))

Okay, here's my reading of the situation. This is really about guild drama, but the guild drama has leaked into the real world. Here's my fix. I will remove links to what you consider your copyrighted material and leave an admin note that these links are not to be added back over pain of deletion and banning. I will also review the guild page for defamatory remarks and remove them. Hopefully this satisfies you.
And to answer the question about whether this guild drama merits deletion of a guild page my answer is: maybe yes, but possibly no. In general, I don't like deleting stuff that can be fixed to comply with policy. If it can't be fixed, it gets deleted, but the attempt to fix is made first. --Gengar orange 22x22Beware the sneaky smile! Fandyllic (talk · contr) 5 Nov 2012 3:42 PM Pacific

Thank you,

You are absolutely correct that this is drama that has bleed out into the real world. I believe that should be fine. If it does continue I will contact you or the support staff about it. It should be enough I believe. I am very sorry this is and has happened. I am looking forward to this settling down hopefully.

Have a good day Fandyllic and I hope the rest of your month is stress free and enjoyable.

V/R James Sommerville

—This unsigned comment is by Jokerscall (talkcontribs) 15:51, November 5, 2012‎. Please sign your posts with ~~~~!

The Nordi they are referring too is me. This is what I am talking about when I stated this is a defamatory attack on my person and my work. They have no screenshots, sources or even website for what they are talking about. The remarks you said were not on the guild page discussion. All this mud slinging has been posted on tumblr, Enjin walls (sort of like talk pages) and the like. I am very tired of being the brunt of this simply because I didn't want someone to us something I wrote when I was 20. This has been nothing but a battle ever seen.

Like I said before, this whole mess barely has anything to do with Cheshire Cats. A lot of this has to do with me not wanting Kaemrys to use something that belong to me in any other guild. For me personally, it was really insulting that I took down his works when he messaged me when we went our separate ways after our 3 year friendship fell apart trying to run a guild together. In the copyright number I provided in a previous message you will see it says Nordi/Voc/jokerscall.

Like I said before I am really sorry this is being brought to WoWwiki.

(Jokerscall (talk) 06:57, November 7, 2012 (UTC))

Nordi, you are a lunatic. You blatantly told me you stole 'The Line' from another website when I joined Brotherhood of the Dawn. It was right there at the top of the forum thread you started to house those paragraphs of text. Stop lying. Baenhoof (talk) 14:33, November 6, 2012 (UTC)

   Who is this "Nordi" that you speak of. --Gengar orange 22x22.png Fandyllic (talk · contr) 6 Nov 2012 5:38 PM Pacific

Hello Fandyllic, first I wish to apologize for coming to you in this fashion and potentially extending the ridiculous drama already dumped on your talk page. I've noted the borderline (if not blatant) slandering by Jokerscall and I won't be rising to it here. Instead I would like to make a request that you take off the "speedy deletion" of the Cheshire Cats page simply because the leader, Xrith, is not inactive on either armory or WoWWiki, a quick glance at his armory profile and the activity here will make sure of that. But also because the implications surrounding this matter are extremely questionable and "overly dramatic".

Without bringing any of my personal dirty laundry into this I would say that given the shady nature of this and that there are more than just a few people who are aware that copyright infringement and outright theft of intellectual property is occurring here. Obtaining a copyright "license" only proves that you can shell out 35 dollars and as long as the original author says nothing than you're the 'owner'. However we have gotten intact with the original author, Kat, who has stated that she is the one who wrote said material.

I urge you to not delete the page just yet until a final and legally binding decision can be reached between all parties. As it stands now, removing the page only "covers up the tracks" of this theft which is what we believe is occurring here. It wasn't hurting anything and won't continue to do so remaining as it is/was. A little longer without being deleted won't harm it and in fact might give Xrith and Kat as well as all of us who support them and the work they did with Cheshire Cats the time they need to prove their rightful ownership. Please allow things to remain as they are so that the truth can be exposed for good or for ill. Kaemrys (talk) 09:24, November 7, 2012 (UTC)Kaemrys

Fandyllic, I left a message for this Kaemrys person on my talk wall if you have not read it by the time you read this message. Just to be clear. I don't want any part of who ever is suddenly feeling it is a right to defend the Cats honor other then myself or Kat. For me this whole drama ends when that page is deleted. I will not take down the speedy delete tag.

I don't know who Baenhoof or Kaemrys are other then the tumblr posts I have read. I do know Nordi. He explained to me what was going on and how this page got involved on Nov 3. Knowing little of how to work a wiki I tried to take down the page so my involvment would end. Unless Kat magically appears from the darkness and logs on to WoW or her wiki accounts to remove the tags herself. I am going to assume this guy is a tool.

The Cats don't need more drama after all that has happened. I wish people would stop beating the dead horse. It's nothing but a pile of flesh and sinew by this point.

Regards, One pissed off old Cat (Xrith (talk) 20:02, November 7, 2012 (UTC))

I saw this on Baenhoof's tumblr. This is about as dumb, pathetic, and petty as it gets. The fact you guys dragged in some old guild that's completely and utterly unrelated to this is so high school. All of you are acting like kids.

The only person that can make light of this mess is this Kat person. If Kaermys has proof that he/she talked to Kat and Kat can verify its all his/her's, more power to him/her. Or Kaermys, get back in contact with Kat and have them undelete the page. Same for Jokerscall.

I was going to vote to keep it, but after reading it, none of it makes sense. It's just one person's word against another with very little proof. But I am saying you all need to step back and chill out. ProffySecnef (talk) 23:52, November 7, 2012 (UTC)

It appears that Xrith and Jokerscall are one and the same person, which not only brings up an issue of sockpuppetry, but also the suspicion that Xrith here is not the same Xrith in the game and guild.
Even were that not the case, it appears that the guild page does merit deletion as per policy. In order to qualify as "disbanded", it has to have less than 10 players. Cheshire Cats meets that qualification. There exists a caveat whereby the guild leader may have the article archived under their user name rather than removed entirely - this may be what is ultimately decided, if contact is made with Xrith in-game.
As for the copyrighted material, it looks like this is an issue that has little to nothing to do with the wiki. Suffice it to say, the registration for copyright appears to have been filed this year, but pertains to works written a number of years ago. There is enough doubt present, given personal knowledge of the copyright process and various testimonials, that merits the links being restored. The page will be locked from further editing and eventually deleted or archived accordingly. Raylan13@fandom (talk) 03:01, November 8, 2012 (UTC)

Thank you for your diligence and hard work Fandyllic and Raylan13 both. I know this is a dirty job and a nasty process to be involved in but you have the gratitude of many people that sincerely can't just stand by while theft of intellectual property occurs. Thank you again, sincerely. We just received the actual email of the real Xrith and we will stop bothering you guys with this nonsense and let him come and clean up the house that someone else is trying to trash. Kaemrys (talk) 03:24, November 8, 2012 (UTC)Kaemrys

No problem at all. If you would be so kind, please suggest he check his in-game mail for a message. Raylan13@fandom (talk) 04:08, November 8, 2012 (UTC)

Will do, sir. Thank you again. Kaemrys (talk) 04:22, November 8, 2012 (UTC)Kaemrys

Sooo... this is the REAL Xrith. I can prove it by giving a history of my guild tenurship with the Cheshire Cats. Originally the Cats where on Feathermoon. There, I accidnetally joined the server. I was in Darkshore when someone proposistioned me to join their guild. However, I was playing my hunter Jedanna. Who, if you look onto the armory, under level 70. I ran into Kat, and rped my main (Xrailax) into the guild. It was pre-wrath that my character "died" two months before the expansion, so that he could come back as Xrith. A mixture of the names Xrailax and Kith, who was an antagonist during one of our storylines at the time. I have NEVER sent an email to anyone regarding this issue, as I didn't KNOW about this issue until 15 minutes ago via email sent to my that was dated Novemeber 7th. I AM the current guild leader of the Cheshire Cats due to Kat's inability to play based on her internet situation. The game made me guild leader. I don't know who this Joker guy is, but it's not me. The pissed off old cat Xrith is not me. If someone wants to contact me and I will provide any proof that I am who I say I am.

Xrailax (talk) 04:08, November 12, 2012 (UTC)Xrailax (the REAL Xrith)Xrailax (talk) 04:08, November 12, 2012 (UTC)

I did indeed receive your in-game mail confirming your identity, Xrailax, as the real Xrith and appreciate the time you took to come here and clear things up. The imposter and the associated sockpuppet have been banned. Though the initial delete proposal was perpetuated by the imposter, the results to "keep" the page stand, so I will edit accordingly and close the vote. Raylan13@fandom (talk) 05:01, November 12, 2012 (UTC)

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