Talk:Sylvanas Windrunner

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I have confirmed that the correct spelling of her name is "Sylvanas Windrunner". I thought it had 2 N's in it. Just so everyone knows.

--FeldmanSkitzoid 20:39, 9 Mar 2005 (EST)

Question: is there any relation between Sylvanas and alleria windrunner?

Sylvanas Windrunner, Alleria Windrunner and Vereesa Windrunner are believed to all be sisters of one-another. It is confirmed in the Well of Eternity, The (Book) that Sylvanas is indeed Vereesa's sister, though I have not read any reference myself that included Alleria, though the articles creator does though. Jemimus 11:45, 13 Jul 2005 (EDT)

Funny Fact:

Sylvanas signed the statue of Alleria in the entrance of Stormwind.

(Not Funny, but still interesting) After the second war, Alleria though all her family was dead. That's why she was so thirsty of vengeance against the Horde.

--Shatiana 14:22, 20 Oct 2005 (EDT)

Both War of the Ancients (the Well of Eternity) and Day of the Dragon confirm that Alleria, Sylvanas and Vereesa are sisters. --Ragestorm 20:15, 3 Dec 2005 (EST)

What if Alleria returns from Outland? She'll find her people joined horde and his sister is trying to develop a plague that will wipe out life on Azeroth? --mko 11:45, 18 May 2006 (EDT)

Since when is Sylvanas intent of wiping out life on Azeroth? Anyway, my guess is that Alleria would remain in support of the Alliance and try to find her uncorrupted sister, Vereesa, who, being married to Rhonin, one of the Kirin Tor, would probably still be a High Elf and not one of the Sin'dorei.--Ragestorm 15:51, 18 May 2006 (EDT)

Well, there is the Royal Apothecary Society who are developing the New Plague. And considering that the Apothecarium is located right around the Royal Quarter of Undercity, it would seem odd that Sylvanas would not know what they are doing. There is one thing that puzzles me about the claim that Alleria thought that her family was dead. Sylvanas was the Ranger-General of Silvermoon, so news about her health should have spread quickly. Or did she attain this rank after Alleria's departure to Draenor? --Shalkis 03:37, 29 May 2006 (EDT)

My fanfic's still fanfic but it sometimes answers to canon lore questions like that :-). Alleria was the Ranger-General of Silvermoon and when she was reported dead by the Alliance which had lost all hope to see her again her sister Sylvanas was appointed Ranger-General. I should also say that : no, the Royal Apothecaries don't seek the doom of living creatures-they're just building new weapons to serve the Horde or, most likely, the immediate interests of the Forsaken. They're not evil themselves, but they have a very twisted mentality.--K ) (talk) 16:38, 11 November 2006 (EST)

Corporeal form

When Sylvanas got "able to maintain her physical form", was it her old body (which Arthas killed in Quel'Thalas) or another one? - Sikon 01:35, 29 May 2006 (EDT)

That's what se don't know. --Ragestorm 10:53, 29 May 2006 (EDT)

I'm surprised that nobody's brought up the most obvious theory regarding this issue just yet -- they simply didn't have a separate new model for Sylvanas in the original game, for whatever reason, so they gave her the Banshee. By the time of the expansion they created the Dark Ranger and gave her that.

I don't think there was ever meant to be a difference, it's more akin to a retcon. But that's my theory.

--Wasted 06:06, 2 July 2006 (EDT)

Ah, yes, but we were searching for a lore reason, as you did on the Night Elf page ;-P it's all academic, anyway--Ragestorm 07:39, 2 July 2006 (EDT)
I think it was most likely just a retcon, and to be honest, if it *is* a retcon, then you don't *need* an "in lore" explanation. That's the whole point of retroactive continuity. It would simply mean "Sylvanas was never the banshee that we saw in WarCraft III". I mean, you don't see them going to pains to explain why people worshipped "God" in WarCraft I, but now worship the "Holy Light" do you? ;) (Ulicus 19:19, 25 July 2006 (EDT))

According to the RPG, she later regained her original body, but she had gone through a time where she was noncorpeal banshee.Baggins 13:01, 15 March 2007 (EDT)

Is it really even revelant to mention that some fans think that a retcon took place (where they believe she never had a noncorpreal form), when official sources confirm that she infact originally was a banshee spirit before taking on her phyiscal form?Baggins 13:41, 18 March 2007 (EDT)
Ghostlands appears to be that very retcon. "He took her ravaged body and cast unholy spells upon it! Creating from what had once been good a thing of evil! He twisted the soul of Sylvanas Windrunner... And turned her into the banshee she is now!" - Dark T Zeratul 18:49, 18 March 2007 (EDT)
I disagree, the "flashback" picture clearly shows her spirit to be outside her body, and it never has a follow up picture showing her spirit being reinserted back into the body. So there is plenty of room that explanation given in other official sources that she "regained her original" body is still valid. The thing that all sources agree on she is still a banshee even after regaining her physical form, and has retained banshee powers in all the undead forms she's appeared in, including after she regained her physical body.Baggins 20:59, 18 March 2007 (EDT)
The new lament of the highborne video confirms that she indeed had her banshee soul ripped from her body, at one point.Baggins 19:24, 19 September 2007 (UTC)

Sylvanas as a Night Elf

As we all know, the Plague hit Silvermoon pretty hard. Also the Plague ravages the body as well. Arthas is only in his twenties and he looks like an old or dying man. Grey skin, wrinkles, gray hair.Maybe it is different for Elven races. The Draenei have experienced devolution during the genocide on Draenor, and the Elves might have done the same during the invasion of Quel'thalas. High elves are a racical off-shoot of the Night elves, so when the Plague killed Sylvanas and she gained her corporeal form back, the body was probably devolved into a Night elven form and thus her appearance in WoW.-Hammerdin

That's proposterous! She's still an undead High Elf. Everyone worries about her ears, but in Warcraft III her ears were long and low, lots of High Elves had Night Elf like ears. Mannerheim
Probably Blizzard didn't recognize the error in it, or they didn't want to use High elf sprites (for whatever reason). At least in patch 2.0 they could've changed it. -Frosti
Unfortunately, Warcraft is not Super Mario Brothers (1993), so de-evolution does not take place. More likely, Blizzard did not want to change the look of a racial leader so as not to incur the wrath of the player base -- imagine the uproar if the model for Thrall or Cairne had changed. The night elf model's posture is more imposing and less pretentious than the blood elf model. You can also see this difference in the decision to use a different model for the Silvermoon Guards who spend their time standing at attention, compared to most of the blood elf NPCs who do not. // Montagg (talk · contr) 12:25, 23 March 2007 (EDT)

Devolutions in WoW dude, the Broken and lost ones devolved. Mr.X8 20:55, 29 August 2007 (UTC)

Sylvanas and the Blood Elves

There is this one issue that I have been wondering about ever since they mentioned that the Blood Elves are going to join the Horde. It is this: If Sylvanas Windrunner was the 'leader' of the High Elves in WC3, and she is still 'alive' only in her Undead form, then when the Blood Elves (who are in truth the High Elves, only corrupted a bit - much like Sylvanas herself) then why would she not want to command both races, as in reality, they are both the same people, only that one is corrupted through death and the other corrupted through living. The people who are now the Blood Elves will surely still recognize Sylvanas as only 5 years have passed. So why has this issue never been brought up before?--Stavious

Because Sylvanas wasn't the leader of all the High Elves, she was just the captain of the elite rangers unit. The true leader was King Anasterian Sunstrider, hence the regular leader is his heir and son, Kael'thas.--K ) (talk) 12:02, 19 October 2006 (EDT)
But won't the Blood Elves who are now in Azeroth be glad to be once again under the leaderish of their proud general Sylvanas. In WC3 it seemed like she cared so much about them, surely she won't forget it because she has a grey skin now. She is an Undead in appearance, but not in mind (as the Lich King doesn't truely control her). Why won't they unit with her and give her command once more? Kael'thas is in Outland and can't really take care of his Blood Elves left in Azeroth. Did Blizzard consider this sligthly forgotten connection?

Sign your posts, please. The connection was noted by Blizzard, that's one (actually, the only iron-clad) of the lore reasons that the Sindorei joined the Horde. Also, a large number for Forsaken were once humans, not elves. Finally, it's just too much territory for Sylvanas to control on her own- even if they crowned her Queen or something, she'd still have to let Loth'remar (or Lor'themar, or whatever his name is) rule Silvermoon. --Ragestorm 13:15, 19 October 2006 (EDT)

The Sylvanas-Sindorei relation does explain why the two races start out friendly towards each others. Knowing that the Sindorei hate the undead so much, starting friendly with the Forsaken (and vice versa) is a great sign that they still feel something for their former Ranger-general. Lor'themar Theron, current leader of the blood elves (and perhaps the "real" leader, considering that Kael might eventually bite the dust) was also Sylvanas's second in combat in the Rangers. --DarthMuffin 20:06, 21 October 2006 (EDT)

I highly doubt the blood elves would be greeting the Forsaken with hugs and kisses, and vice versa. They may have been humans and elves in life but they are something altogether different and horrifying now.--Grid 16:39, 10 November 2006 (EST)

True, but the reputation bar speaks for itself. Obviously, Sylvanas commands some respect across the borders of Quel'Thalas that transcends whatever racial prejudices toward undead the elves might have. It's possible some blood elves feel some empathy for the Forsaken, since most were citizens of Lordaeron and likewise had their homes destroyed by the Scourge. // Montagg (talk · contr) 19:12, 10 November 2006 (EST)
Listening to the NPC dialogue in Silvermoon, it's clear that not all of the blood elves are so eager to forgive and forget and accept the Forsaken. - Dark T Zeratul 18:51, 18 March 2007 (EDT)

What rep bar? If you mean seeing it on "Friendly", it is probably due to the fact that rep grinding is much easier in the expansion now, and it is already confirmed that Blood Elf starting characters will interact with some Forsaken NPCs in their earlier level grinds.--Grid 16:25, 11 November 2006 (EST)

While the rep grind is easier, they start off at Friendly with the Forsaken (and vice versa for the Forsaken), and neutral with everyone else. --Maenos 16:51, 11 November 2006 (EST)
I'm just saying there are probably lore reasons for that, as well as for Forsaken NPCs to be in Quel'Thalas and Northern Plaguelands. // Montagg (talk · contr) 18:42, 11 November 2006 (EST)

Confirmed on my mage. I start off friendly with Silvermoon. It seems they do have a kinship with each other.--Grid 01:10, 11 December 2006 (EST)

Model in BC

Any confirmations on whether or not the dev team has changed her model yet? AzraelOpacus 00:58, 25 October 2006 (EDT)

It was the same when I checked after the last patch. Hopefully before it goes live, though, since all the living high elves got upgraded. She definitely deserves it.--Aeleas 02:04, 25 October 2006 (EDT)
From the horny High Elf in Warcraft 3 she was to the disgusting pale NE she is in WoW I definitely see why her model should be changed. Blizzard has REALLY been lazy.--K ) (talk) 08:23, 25 October 2006 (EDT)
As the faked screenshot didn't belong on the article page, I think the talk page could bear it :
Sylvanas High Elf

Sylvanas as a High Elf with the appropriate model, on a faked screenshot.

--K ) (talk) 08:15, 15 January 2007 (EST)

Personally, I think she looks better with the Nigh elf model, if that image is any indication.--Ragestorm (talk · contr) 09:20, 15 January 2007 (EST)

Well, of course it sucks if she gets just an ordinary High Elf-face. Just like all the other racial leaders, she needs some personality! --Odolwa 17:18, 15 January 2007 (EST)

As for me, I think that she should get an unique model based on high/blood elven one - she was actually a high elf before, and I can barely stand seeing her as an alliance night elf thing. The picture here is ok, she just should get some more sinister looking face probably. And probably without this silly hood thing, as it makes her look like Red (Black?) Riding Hood (childlike face).   Sul'jin  talk  contribs 06:30, 16 January 2007 (EST)

I don't think it would be particularly hard to change Sylvanas's model to a blue version of a Blood Elf model (like they did for Dar'Khan) especially since that's how Dark Rangers looked in WC3. Just a simple change of hue/saturation. Here's a Photoshop example I did a while back of a regular ol' Dark Ranger. midnightww1.jpg -Antinate

I changed the pic a little, gave her blue skin and redder eyes with stitch marks. I think it would be awesome to have a Sylvanas something akin to this, rather than that silly night elf model we have now. --User:Varghedin/Sig 07:08, 22 February 2007 (EST)
Since I'm making a new movie about The Forsaken, I had to include Sylvanas. Since Sylvanas's special, she can't look like a regular ol' night elf. Check my user page for a screenie of what she looks like in the movie. --Antinate 01:36, 23 February 2007 (EST)

Dark'Khan has a varient "Wretched model, doesn't he? Are there any female Wretched in game?Baggins 12:55, 15 March 2007 (EDT)

Whitemane uses her own custom NPC Skin, that's how she has those red lines that run through her eyes. Dar'Khan does the same thing, using the Blood Elf male model, and that gives him the sort of greenish skin with black eyes. What I discovered the other day when I was messing around with BLP2s is that it's not as easy as I thought it would be to give someone blue skin and red eyes and have it show up in-game. I think I'll just go with the explanation that Blizzard doesn't want to spend that much time working on a single NPC, even though Sylvanas is a very important lore figure in the game, arguably moreso than Rexxar (even though Rexxar has his own model, now that I think about it. Hmm.) --Antinate 10:54, 17 March 2007 (EDT)
The only problem is that many of these models aren't truly that custom, they just use base racial models, with a few added doodads, and color tweaks here or there. So basic physical form is often exactly the same as most ofter members of their same race.Baggins 20:56, 18 March 2007 (EDT)
They even use base models of some races for others that are completely unrelated, like Forsaken -> Wretched and Tauren -> Broken. Either way, I still think that a tweaked high elf model is better than an untweaked night elf model for this important character. --User:Varghedin/Sig 20:01, 19 March 2007 (EDT)
I agree a tweaked high elf would be better than nothing. Although taking her base model from TFT and then upgrading its poly count and touching up the textures would be even better, ;).Baggins 20:34, 19 March 2007 (EDT)
So, what you're saying is that, in lore, racial leaders don't have the same basic shape as their race?--Ragestorm (talk · contr) 20:37, 19 March 2007 (EDT)

sylvans should have glowing blue or yelow eyes, red eyes make her look too... evil.and she isn't evil, she is the greatest character in the game¡¡¡ also, in ghostlands, her eyes are white.Blizzard should change her model fast for a BE model. Beloren

Here's a version I did the other day, and I agree with the non-red eyes, none of the undead I can think of have red eyes anyway. I honestly don't think most people would be upset about a model change, in fact, more people would be happy about it. sylvanascopy.jpg Aveykin 00:15, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

File:Sylvanas Now.jpg

How about this for accuracy... If you've played WC3 and TFT, you'll know that Sylvanas never wore a skirt - she wore pants with a cloak and a quiver on her back. Taking that into account, I designed this model of her as faithful to WC3's model as possible. I also just received word that Blizzard is interested in this design and wishes to speak with me about it. Narisiel 16:45, 11 October 2007 (EST)

Seems accurate exept she wore a skimpier top and did not have the shoulder spikes. Did Blizzard really contact you? Can you provide a link? --SWM2448 20:51, 12 October 2007 (UTC)
I'll make this simple: that image is not going in the article unless and until it goes into the game. In WC3, Sylvanas's (and by extension, all the Dark Rangers) had models identical to that of Shandris- which is probably why she looks like a night elf in the manga. --Ragestorm (talk · contr) 15:01, 18 October 2007 (UTC)

A blonde undead?!?

Ok, I am making a Blood Elf model Sylvanas in WoW Model Viewer... So what haircolor has she got? When she is Undead I mean then... I am not sure if she still has that blonde hair or if she have got black hair now...

Just a random bit of off-topicness dealing with the WoW Model Viewer, here... WoWSylvanasHE.jpg -- I made this High Elf Lady Sylvanas Windrunner model with similar-looking equipment to that seen in Warcraft III: Reign of Chaos. ~ Doc Lithius (U)(T)(C) 10:24, 7 April 2007 (EDT)
Very good model of sylvanas, you could make a model for her as an undead..


--Oscararon 04:43, 3 February 2007 (EST)

Judging by her current in-game model, she now has white hair. --User:Varghedin/Sig 07:19, 3 February 2007 (EST)

Can you tell me what armor she have got? --Oscararon 16:08, 3 February 2007 (EST)


I often see people calling her Sylvanus where does that mispelling come from?

People not realizing that it has an "a", and other people in fantasy using a "u". Sign your posts, please. --Ragestorm (talk · contr) 12:16, 17 February 2007 (EST)
I was always thinking there her name is Sylvanus. I am feeling just like I've seen the "u" variant somewhere in WC3 RoC. I'll check it out.Elf-Eluna-Alina 04:30, 1 march 2007
Sylvanas Windrunner's WC3 RoC sound set is named Sylvanus. User:tgudgeon. 20:17 GMT
Strange Americans... Never seen ANYONE misspell her name like that on European servers. --Efreeti 20:29, 11 April 2007 (EDT)
Right, it'd sound like "anus". Instead, we Europeans are much more used to misspelling the name "Sylvannas".--K ) (talk) 04:43, 12 April 2007 (EDT)

Ghostlands doesn't say anything about her soul being ripped from her body

It doesn't "say" her soul is being ripped from her body but it physically shows it outside her body in the picture. Since its the last picture in the "flashback", and there are no follow up flashback shots, it certainly doesn't show the soul being put back into her body. So I don't see there necessarily being a contradiction or retcon with other current published sources which state that she was in banshee spirit form for a time.Baggins 20:52, 18 March 2007 (EDT)

Lady Sylvanas' Equipment?

Can anyone give me a full list of Lady Sylvanas Windrunner's equipment as seen on her character model in World of Warcraft? I notice Thrall has an equipment list, for example... I think Sylvanas should have one, too. ~ Doc Lithius (U)(T)(C) 10:22, 7 April 2007 (EDT)


Items that look like what she's wearing in WoW:

  • Head: Nightsky Cowl
  • Shoulders: ??
  • Chest: Spiderfang Carapace
  • Gloves: Deathbone Gauntlets (Not correct. These are the Bonefingers dropped in RFDs)--Millicent 16:09, 23 September 2007 (UTC)
  • Belt: Deathbone Girdle
  • Legs: Bottom half of Robes of Arugal or Necropile Robe (there's no such item for PCs, so far as I know, and wearing the full robe would prevent one from wearing the breastplate)
  • Boots: Deathbone Sabatons
  • Sword: Cruel Barb
  • Bow: ??

Her equipment according to the RPG:

  • Sunstrider's Longbow
  • Bottomless Quiver (w/silver, cold iron, and adamantine arrows)
  • +5 studded leather armor
  • Rod of Undead Mastery
  • Robes of Elven Kings
  • Superior Boots of Elvenkind
  • Cloak of Writhing Shadows
  • Girdle of Giant Strength +6

The bow, rod, robes, and cloak are unique items.

--Egrem 14:20, 18 April 2007 (EST)

Greatly appreciated, Egrem! If there's anything I can do for you in return, fire away! ~ Doc Lithius (U)(T)(C) 18:28, 23 April 2007 (EDT)


Not that we know how it loooks, but her bow is probably Sunstrider's Longbow. --Odolwa 18:48, 23 April 2007 (EDT)


The shoulders are part of a horde PvP set. Mage i think.--GBush 9:30, 15 November 2007


I Cannot correctly Edit WoWwiki can some add that Hydross the Unstable/Dead Kael Drop Mail Chest items with "Ranger-General" Prefix or Suffix.--Betrayer 8:20. 22 February 2008

Picture Suggestion

I think it might be more appropriate to have the Metzen sketch from the Manual of Monsters at her headline picture as opposed to the Ryan Sook art from Through the Dark Portal currently in place. I think many will agree with me here that the Metzen art is a more accurate representation of what she really looks like.

Sign your posts, please. I agree that the TGC art is lacking, and should be changed, but I disagree with the use of Metzen's sketch as a headline image. This is also an aesthetic choice- both Metzen and the TCG are accurate representations of her appearance. --Ragestorm (talk · contr) 21:35, 27 April 2007 (EDT)

More than any other character, Sylvanas' appearance has been very inconsistent:

  • Frozen Throne: Red eyes, light blue skin, dark blue hair, no facial markings.
  • World of Warcraft: White eyes, pale grey skin, white hair, facial markings.
  • RPG: White eyes, alabaster white skin, white hair, facial markings.
  • TCG: White eyes, pink skin, white hair, facial markings.
  • Manga: White eyes, white skin, black hair, no facial markings.

The dark ranger look seems to have been retconned out, as it hasn't been used for any post-Frozen Throne appearances. It seems like they've been going for a very pale look (white eyes/skin/hair, black clothes) since then, though even that hasn't been consistent - her skin in WoW is grey (because that's the closest they could get using a standard night elf model), her skin looks far too pink in the TCG art (even accounting for the lighting), and the black hair in the manga is presumably a mistake (she had it even in the pre-Scourge flashbacks, and we know that she was blonde then). The use of facial markings has also been inconsistent, though since Metzen included them in his drawing they probably are supposed to be there.

  • Egrem 15:29, 28 April 2007 (EDT)
I would have to agree, that I personally prefer the Metzen artwork over the TCG artwork. Although I also like the Manga artwork as well (if the only reason for not using metzen, is its lack of "color"). IMO, TCG has the worst quality, don't know if its a scan issue, or the composition, but the coloring looks horrible, and looks pretty bad on computers using higher resolution modes, almost blurry, squished, and too tiny for the infobox.Baggins 15:39, 28 April 2007 (EDT)
I still don't particularly like Metzen's image, but if it gets a consensus, I won't protest. Personally, I'd favor her manga appearce, apart from the fact that she wears a night elf outfit. --Ragestorm (talk · contr) 17:13, 28 April 2007 (EDT)
The manga outfit is kinda druid/wardenish, at least the feathers...Baggins 17:15, 28 April 2007 (EDT)
What kinda? It's a knockoff of the Kaldorei druid from the WoW opening cinematic (the one with the broken sword), which in itself is a knockoff of the standard Sentinel outfit Shandris and the rest of the archer corps wore during the Long Vigil. I personally like it because it references that fact that Sylvanas and Shandris had the same model in WC3, but when compared to the rest of the high elves, it just looks weird. --Ragestorm (talk · contr) 17:23, 28 April 2007 (EDT)

The stitched look references her reconstruction after her death. In no iteration save World of Warcraft's generic night elf model has she ever had symmetrical facial tattoos. That aside, she's not a night elf, and she's presented as one in World, not even with a unique skin. As such, I don't think this model is an accurate representation, and thus, I don't think the TCG based on it is accurate. Also, the written descriptions from the RPG have been questionable throughout. -Parqual Fintalas

I'd suggest against the manga picture as a headline picture, much for the reasons Ragestorm noted; her clothing is much too night elven, a replica of the feathered leather outfit which appears in a great deal of night elf art. I think an image from the manga should still be included in the article, naturally, just not at the top. - Parqual Fintalas

Wait, didn't you say that all WoW lore models were unique for the characters on the Tyrande picture discussion. The quote is "And don't shrug off the in-game models, the crew works just as hard on them as they do on concept art. If they wanted to put facial markings on Tyrande in either game, they could have, and they decided not to." (Talk:Tyrande Whisperwind/Shadows&Light) ... And now you're saying that this one is wrong because you disagree with it? Hypocrite much? Kirkburn talk contr 16:45, 31 May 2007 (UTC)
Can someone point me to another image of her with the stitching? It's no more accurate or inacurate than the manga image. I'm tempted to throw up the WoW screenshot "due to artistic clashes." --Ragestorm (talk · contr) 21:09, 31 May 2007 (UTC)
About the stitches, according to the RPG, Forsaken are capable of "heal naturally"HPG 160, so really all she needed to do is wait for her face to heal together, and the stitches to fall out, :p, I bet she's uspet that we got a picture of her after her unfortunate bit of plastic surgery... ;).Baggins 21:32, 31 May 2007 (UTC)
Trust me, if Sylvanas knows we exist, her image is the least of our worries. --Ragestorm (talk · contr) 22:04, 31 May 2007 (UTC)
If they can heal why are they so rotten? What is the extent of their healing? Do they embalm themselves to last more than a year?--SWM2448 22:06, 31 May 2007 (UTC)
Ahh, well essentially it has something to do with difference between mindless undead, and being an intelligent undead (don't ask me I have no idea), mindless or controlled dead will continue to decompose. But moment they get their intelligence back, the decomposition stops... Or in some cases what ever decomposition they went through while in the grave, before reanimation.
They can't heal from whatever damage occured in their mindless state, or "dead" state, but they can heal from additional damage after they became Forsaken. That's not to say they can't still lose bits of their flesh if was barely hanging on anyways, or damaged in battle too severely. But things like scratches and stitched wounds apparently can heal over time. Yes, again I don't understand the processes, :p... It seems a bit silly to me.Baggins 22:12, 31 May 2007 (UTC)
Ok more information, necromantic magic is what is keeping them preserved, but natural decay still occurs, just slower than normal. So they can only heal from wounds inflicted to them, not those created through processes of "decay". Additionally they can be healed through spells like "death coil", and Holy Light based spells causes them damage (this is another reason for the change to the philosphy of the Shadow.).Baggins 22:24, 31 May 2007 (UTC)
Are we leaving this up to an aesthetic debate? The TCG version makes her look like a pirate IMO (not that's a BAD thing per se, just not appropriate.) The Metzen version makes her looks like a horrid mess, and in my eyes doesn't really cut it to be a headline pic. Really, my favorite picture of the bunch is at the bottom where she's on her throne brooding, but we have a policy for official pics only if they exist for headline pics. Pzychotix 23:06, 31 May 2007 (UTC)
Ya your right the TCG makes her look like a pirate, a midget pirate :pBaggins 23:21, 31 May 2007 (UTC)
The one on her throne is fanart, and we don't use fanart unless there is no other recourse. --Ragestorm (talk · contr) 02:27, 1 June 2007 (UTC)

Too many pictures in there. Please decide which ones we have to take off before I do so.--K ) (talk) 14:03, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

I would say the manga image of the ritual (it's not a very good shot), the one of her battling the Scourge invaders (it just seems like we don't need it), anthe one of her proclaiming hre faction to be the Frosaken (that's a really bad shot). Just my opinion. Ellethwen 16:16, 23 September 2007 (UTC)

"Sylvanas before her death.", The Ritual Magna pic, and Sylvannas proclaims her faction the forsaken (Bad SS). Maybe also "Sylvannas locked in thought" fanart. It's probably my favorite fanart of all time but theres alreay so many other detailed, colored pics of Sylvanas. Sylvanas "lament of the Highborne" fanart i think is approrpriate for the section it resides in, even more so with blizz using it. I have a question though. Would a mini-gallery like seen with Singe be appropriate? With the excpetion of one or two, every imagine on this page is worth having IMO.Warthok 18:11, 23 September 2007 (UTC)

Kerrigan of Warcraft?

I think there should be a mention of similarities of character between Sylvanas and Kerrigan from Starcraft. They two characters are extremely similar:

  • Both were defenders of their previous nations
  • Both were "turned" and changed from their native forms
  • Both broke from their new masters to form new factions
  • Both now have some "longing" to return to their forms.

—The preceding unsigned comment was added by Venixer (talk · contr).

Definetly a parallel there. --Ragestorm (talk · contr) 12:09, 19 July 2007 (UTC)
The undead mission 5 (Dreadlord's fall) is also a direct copy of one of the Kerrigan missions in brood war (True colors), there is also the fact that Sylvanas tended to kill off people working for her in that game (or at least Garithos), except for Varimathras, just like Kerrigan and Duran. However, there are a lot of warcraft characters with Kerrigan similarities (Arthas becoming the Lich King's major servant, just like the overmind planned for Kerrigan, with a similar "was once a champion of the humans fighting the scourge" story. Kel'thuzad also has the similarity of having to be protected and reborn into the scourge, similar to the chrysalis in starcraft. (Personally, I think making Sylvanas a Kerrigan copy was very lazy.)Minionman 17:28, 2 August 2007 (UTC)


Does anyone have her stats for WC3 or WoW? Like HP and the like. I would log onto wow with my patch to see but the computer thats on is no longer here =/ -- Eimii 08:46, 23 July 2007 (UTC)

Yes, it is redundant

That is the point of the introduction. It is meant to give an overview of an article, or an essay, or what have you. Mind you, not even all of it is "covered below". It will be readded. --Sky (t · c · w) 07:11, 27 July 2007 (UTC)

I personally find the article way too verbose, loaded with unnecessary details and adjectives & adverbs (her valiant efforts?? She fought valiantly against Arthas?). Here's an example of the proper format [1]. It is much shorter and concise. Personally I think we need to follow this standard. --Raze 07:22, 27 July 2007 (UTC)
Then make it closer to NPOV, if that's the issue. Deleting the introductory paragraph is silly. --Sky (t · c · w) 07:26, 27 July 2007 (UTC)
Be careful of removing unique and cited information if it doesn't exist elsewhere in the article. Removing entire paragraphs is dangerous if it removes valid information. Exception being intro paragraphs vs main content. Intro is standard and should cover the highlights of the article, for people looking for quick info.
Large paragraphs that describe unique events should not be removed, but should be correctly cited. For example explanations of what she was doing during Warcraft III campaigns, should be as accurate as possible to what happens in the campaign, and not leave out any bits of information. If anything this article could probably use some more citations in places rather than subraction...Baggins 07:30, 27 July 2007 (UTC)
NPOV isn't the only problem. There's also absolutely no need for a massive introductory paragraph in any wiki articles, it should never be long enough to warrant one. A lot of the details I mention include the exact movements of a specific battle, they could at least be moved to a separate article, and have the battle summarised in concise terms regarding who was the victor and what were the impacts after.
Again short and concise, many articles on this site are just hideously long. That's my opinion. Again read the link I posted for a better format. I'll try not delete unique information in the future as well.--Raze 07:35, 27 July 2007 (UTC)
I don't know what you see but I see an intro/overview in Elrond that is about as long as the intro/overview section in this article. The only difference is the lack of the "Character Overview" section title.Baggins 07:40, 27 July 2007 (UTC)
It doesn't recount his entire history, it only talk about his ancestry and appearance, information that isn't repeated in the article. --Raze 07:44, 27 July 2007 (UTC)
You mean short and sweet like these? Seriously. If you're going to draw conclusions from wikipedia, you should provide more examples. ;) --Sky (t · c · w) 07:42, 27 July 2007 (UTC)
OK my bad, not all wiki articles. But this one doesn't need to be, especially when it's just recounting the same plot twice. There are still npov phrases that can be removed. --Raze 07:50, 27 July 2007 (UTC)
True, and I encouraged you to do so. :) --Sky (t · c · w) 07:52, 27 July 2007 (UTC)

A mage

It says shes a mage, I just skimmed through her article and I didn't see anything that says shes a mage, where did this come from? Mr.X8 21:31, 20 August 2007 (UTC)

The RPG? Kirkburn talk contr 21:53, 20 August 2007 (UTC)
talk to the hobbit. --Ragestorm (talk · contr) 23:20, 20 August 2007 (UTC)

What? And Kirkburn, do you mean that as a sarcastic remark or a geniune response? Mr.X8 00:47, 21 August 2007 (UTC)

Baggins is the hobbit :) It was indeed a genuine remark - it was probably one of her classes in the RPG, but I don't have access to the info. Kirkburn talk contr 01:58, 21 August 2007 (UTC)

oh, I just thought that seemed out of place for her Mr.X8 20:14, 21 August 2007 (UTC)

Well, appearantly the RPG is lying. Sylvanas is nowhere near a mage! --Odolwa 00:45, 9 September 2007 (UTC)

Let me check on this.
"Dark Lady Sylvanas Windrunner is a 10th-level elven ranger/10th-level warrior/10th-level mage.WoWRPGCD 11
Yep its in the RPG, it apparently has to do with some of the abililities she has in the RPG. Probably also has to do with the Dark Ranger class, which mixes necromancy and other arcane magic in place of druidic nature magic. ...or possibly arcane based banshee powers.Baggins 00:49, 9 September 2007 (UTC)

It has just become confusing and strange since the RPG-stuff was introduced into the Wiki. For instance, Sargeras, the Dark Titan, the Destroyer of Worlds, is classed as "Fighter". How silly doesn't that sound? --Odolwa 21:08, 13 September 2007 (UTC)

Yeah, just like Tyrande is a priest and she has a huge tiger. Priests don't have huge tiger pets, hunters/druids/rangers/beastmasters do.  IconSmall HighElf Male Mr.X8 Talk Contribs

Isnt a pet, its a mount! Also your sig is borked fix it please and use a timestamp  D ♠ T ♣ C ♦ I ♥ WP 01:05, 14 September 2007 (UTC)
Well, it is in many ways a pet - Ash'alah. And why shouldn't a priest have a pet? Kirkburn talk contr
Yep, according to Tyrande's obsolete stat block in the RPG she's a Healer with the Priestess and Huntress prestige classes. Using a little common sense and the second edition of rules one could place her in the Priestess and Huntress base classes.

So as to avoid any confusion, shouldn't we put (RPG) next to RPG classes, and use a citation link or link to the respective edition or book, or make a seperate section of the character panel? I'm sure a lot of people who don't read talk pages are scratching their heads, and people do rely on this Wiki for information.

...although it does seem kind of mean riding your pet's back.  ; ; --Super Bhaal 06:58, 14 September 2007 (UTC)

Then all characters over level 40 are evil  D ♠ T ♣ C ♦ I ♥ WP 10:45, 14 September 2007 (UTC)
Nah, Tyrande's block said lawful neutral so if anyone brings up the immorality in her actions ( like murdering a bunch of night elves to release Illidan or riding on a cat ) she can just pull the "Elune told me, lol" card. --11:25, 14 September 2007 (UTC)

who added her being a sorcerer? Mr.X8 01:18, 27 September 2007 (UTC)

According to the RPG stats she had levels in that, rather than mage, but since they have mage listed right next to sorcerer that works too. --Super Bhaal 01:24, 27 September 2007 (UTC)
She's listed as a sorcerer in the Warcraft RPG, and a mage in World of Warcraft RPG. Because of certain gameplay conversions due to changes to the game mechanics and removal of certain classes.--Baggins 03:19, 27 September 2007 (UTC)03:15, 27 September 2007 (UTC)

Are the character class descriptions really needed? They don't really provide that much information outside of gameplays for the different games, and kind of squeeze the characters into boxes.Minionman 01:45, 16 December 2007 (UTC)

We add all classes that a character has been said to be in any Warcraft source.Baggins 01:49, 16 December 2007 (UTC)


I thought in Warcraft the Forsaken were their own faction, am I right or wrong?--Mr.X8 20:22, 21 August 2007 (UTC)

Theys are a subfaction of the Horde, but have no real loyalties to them.--SWM2448 20:23, 21 August 2007 (UTC)
I like thinking of them as the Scarlet Crusade: accepted, but viewed as creepy. --Super Bhaal 21:12, 21 August 2007 (UTC)



Sylvanas is high elf, not night elf, they should change it to this Sylvanasblue.jpg preceding unsigned comment was added by M1330 (talk · contr).</small>

Sad to say but sylvanas looks creepy in most of your pictures.

I'm guessing that's essentially admittance that it's fan-made? This isn't a forum, btw. Kirkburn talk contr 16:25, 8 September 2007 (UTC)

Please stop shouting, and sign your posts. Swiftstar 16:40, 1 December 2007 (UTC)Swiftstar


What gear is the young high elven sylvanas wearing? --Gurluas 15:13, 19 September 2007 (UTC)

The "haylookitme" orc kilt seems to be special.  :/ Other than that I think the hood is Abjurer's Hood. --Super Bhaal 15:30, 19 September 2007 (UTC)

She aint wearing any kilt? she is wearing some pants, also i remember i saw her cape before. --Gurluas 15:31, 19 September 2007 (UTC)

EDIT: its not the abjurers hood, its the Cowl of Tirisfal with a blue skin.--Gurluas 15:35, 19 September 2007 (UTC)


Fanart is discouraged in the main article, unless it is the only example that exists. More importantly it doesn't replace official artwork.--Baggins 18:54, 19 September 2007 (UTC


"Sylvanas Locked in Thought" (fan art)

I agree, but you've let fanart in infoboxes for Deathwing and Onyxia. P.S. the TCG image of Sylvanas is awful. Why don't we use Metzen's? Moreover, I put this image in the article, replacing the SW trilogy image but the change was reverted

I'm with you, i'd prefer to use the Metzen image as well. However, to put it back apparently we need a consensus, as other people don't like the image apparently.
As for the video image, it should be seperate, not replacing the manga version. I've fixed that.Baggins 19:12, 19 September 2007 (UTC)

I suggest her high elf appearance as front page, i dont like metzen's sketch or the undead ingame model, or the tcg edition--Gurluas 19:19, 19 September 2007 (UTC)

Yet, that's the problem we generally try to go with "modern condition" of a character. So a page like Arthas has a picture of him in death knight mode. A picture of Sylvanas has to be when she is a dark ranger.Baggins 19:21, 19 September 2007 (UTC)

Afaik the arthas page had his paladin edition?--Gurluas 19:33, 19 September 2007 (UTC)

There are two seperate pages for Arthas, one with him as a paladin and one as the Lich King. That may be why he has the Paladin picture.

Also, that first picture of the ritual is just awful, and it looks the same as the one under it. Should we just remove the top one? Ellethwen 19:42, 19 September 2007 (UTC)

We could make a gallery at the bottom of the page like the people at Encyclopaedia Dramatica do. --Super Bhaal 19:43, 19 September 2007 (UTC)

By that logic, we could make a sylvanas high elf page and put anything there... the Arthas page is about Arthas, the lich king page is about ner'zhul Arthas was mostly a death knight before he became the king of the liches.--Gurluas 19:49, 19 September 2007 (UTC)

Not to mention he didn't do too much ( that we know about ) when he was a Paladin ( and "right in the head" ). It's like Ner'zhul. We know him for being the creepy necromancer with white facepaint and for being the creepy soul trapped in blister packaging a block of ice, but only got a glimpse of what he was before ( RotH ). --Super Bhaal 19:54, 19 September 2007 (UTC)

I think that Sylvanas fanart shown right is fine for inclusion at the end, given its quality, and assuming it does not overload the page. As for Deathwing and Onyxia, yes, it is rather odd that the infoboxes get fanart in them - they shouldn't be! Kirkburn talk contr 20:23, 19 September 2007 (UTC)

I think the onyxia artwork was actually from the TCG, not "fanart".Baggins 23:46, 19 September 2007 (UTC)
It's fanart. page 23 on the blizzard fan art archive.Warthok 23:49, 19 September 2007 (UTC)
Ah thanks. This is why even artwork needs to be cited, :).Baggins 23:50, 19 September 2007 (UTC)
Personally, I think Jiao Qiao's Fan Art should be in the Info Box. For one thing, if its good enough for Blizzard to put it on the World of Warcraft Launcher, its good enough to be put in the Info Box (In my most humble opinion). And it is, by far, the probably the best artistic depiction of Sylvanas yet --Invin Dranoel 12:03, 27 September 2007 (UTC)

Lament of the Highborne = possible model change?

I don't know where to put this, and I know you're all ( especially Rage since I remember it saying "guys shut up about the model Blizzard has other things to take care of" ) going to have my guts for this, but does anyone think the Lament of the Highborne video might be an indication that Blizzard will change Sylvanas' model in either a later patch or when WotLK comes out? Look at her models ( living and corpse ) during the video. High/Blood Elf models, amirite? Might they be waving a white flag/delicious steak in our faces with this? Maybe when she moves to New Agamand she'll have the new model? I don't think they'd make a video with models different from what we now see without good reason...or am I just breathing through my mouth? --Super Bhaal 21:15, 19 September 2007 (UTC)

CoT wing appearence?--SWM2448 21:18, 19 September 2007 (UTC)

Didn't even think about that.  :D But why would she be running around Stratholme, and even if we were to see her when she was alive what would we do? Kill her?  :/ --Super Bhaal 21:21, 19 September 2007 (UTC)
No. The Undead model is still the former one.--K ) (talk) 21:34, 19 September 2007 (UTC)
I'm talking about what they used for her corpse. Skin's not "High Elf white", but rather "shock site grey".
--Super Bhaal 21:50, 19 September 2007 (UTC)
Since she will be playing a large role in WotLK I would imagine she will get a new model then that is a undead high elf. No where in the movie though did they show a more pale skinned high elf as her. It just looked more pale from where the scene was taken compared to Eversong. The fog of a area does affect a lot of times how character and item models look. Leviathon 22:39, 19 September 2007 (UTC)
Yeah, I guess you're right. When I used Windows and ran across The Molten Span my blood elf ( who also uses the palest avaliable skin )'s skin turned, like, scarlet. Eh, even if she stays a bouncing, eight-foot cadaver it's still kind of neat that they showed us that she looked like Laura Harris how she'd have looked using World of Warcraft models. Anyone notice how...big Arthas was?

Who knows, they might even be giving us dead high elf skins for Forsaken characters. Kind of a long shot, but that'd be kind of nice. --Super Bhaal 18:58, 20 September 2007 (UTC)

I can confirm Dark Rangers in WotlK used a high elven model. There was one near the Horde start area attacking camps. Incredible bow range. Kirkburn talk contr 19:09, 20 September 2007 (UTC)

Quick question... how do you know that? Is Wotlk being tested already? --Blayaden 17:55, 28 October 2007 (UTC)

It was shown at Blizzcon, duh ;)(at least that's where Kirkburn saw it).Baggins 17:56, 28 October 2007 (UTC)
Really? Man those blizzcon guys are lucky. And yeah, if Sylvanas showed up on Northrend she would stand out even more if she still has her current model. (how can she be a classified as a Dark Ranger without a bow?) She isn't the kind of person to leave such a valuable piece of equipment behind...--Blayaden 18:08, 28 October 2007 (UTC)

Her Mount

Most leaders have mounts. Would she have the Forsaken undead horse mount, or possibly the mounts of her people that were transformed into the undead. I am talking about either some sort of undead Hawkstrider, or an undead Elven horse  IconSmall HighElf Male Mr.X8 Talk Contribs

Vereesa Windrunner's mount of choice was the elven horse.Baggins 16:55, 28 October 2007 (UTC)

So most likely an Elven horse. There probably wouldn't be too much of a skeleton difference between the two species of horses. Possibly just bigger openings on an Elven horse where the ears would go.  IconSmall HighElf Male Mr.X8 Talk Contribs

An elven horse is just a regular horse species, I don't think they have "elven ears", LawlBaggins

Elven horses are a breed of horse bred by the high elves. According to the high elves generations of breeding had created an animal far superior to its mundane cousins. The Elven Horse has long ears like their breeders and also has a long mane from the horse's head/neck, all the way towards to the Elven Horse's tail.DotD 13,14

Retrieved from ""'  IconSmall HighElf Male Mr.X8 Talk Contribs "Most leaders have mounts"? The only racial leaders I have ever seen on a mount is Thrall and Tyrande.--Odolwa 18:53, 28 October 2007 (UTC)

Malfurion had a stag mount in War3. But he only appears a vision in WoW.Baggins 19:11, 28 October 2007 (UTC)

True, the reason I skipped him was because of the fact that he is absent.--Odolwa 20:47, 28 October 2007 (UTC)

Odolwa, do you think people like Cairne are going to walk around and not have a mount? If leaders can't have mounts, I know I wouldn't want to be oneMr.X8 21:20, 28 October 2007 (UTC)

They probably have mounts, but we have no proof of it, whereas the statement "Most leaders have mounts" is misleading. But I get your point, one can wonder what type of mount Sylvanas would choose.--Odolwa 22:00, 28 October 2007 (UTC)

But you are right. I guess I should have worded it better Mr.X8 22:27, 28 October 2007 (UTC)

Jaina likely doesn't have a need for a mount, she's an expert at teleportation. However, like most archmages she'd probably have a unicorn or a horse.Baggins 22:34, 28 October 2007 (UTC)

Agreed. When walking would be too tedious and teleporting too much Jaina probably does own a horse, like millions of other people in fantasy, for "quick trips" or whatnot ( Rhonin, Brox, and Illidan used nightsaber mounts in WotA, Gandalf had Shadowfax, I even think Ulysses S. Grant and Robert E. Lee had horses for such purposes ). I can't see Sylvanas getting on a mount, though ( she seems the woodsy "I like to hike" type ), and while I hate to bring game mechanics into these discussions she was listed as having "increased movement speed" ( "Scourge salient power", the ability to "leap" from place to place with her cloak, as well as her old banshee flight, believe it or not... ) in Manual of Monsters, which may explain how she covers distance or something. As said before, game mechanics, lol. It's like trying to give stats to Drizzt Do'Urden, or Elminster: it's happened, but in the end it's just for people who want to kill the character. --Super Bhaal 02:39, 29 October 2007 (UTC)

Granted, her maintained banshee abilities are actually written into other lore in the RPG, and hinted at in the manga as well. The manga shows her banshee scream iirc. Retained banshee abilities are also locked into the Dark Ranger class as well, if i'm not mistaken? Though this is going into another discussion altogether. BTW, she is listed with "Fast movement speed", not the salient, "Fearsome speed".Baggins 03:19, 29 October 2007 (UTC)

Not sure about the banshee stuff because Sylvanas was unique, but the class in the HPG seems to emulate her. As for movement speed, this Taelohn person who wrote up a bunch of stats lists her as having levels in barbarian but I can't find rage in her abilities so I just assumed she had the salient power and White Wolf either misprinted it or listed it as "increased movement speed" ( have you seen the unofficial errata? Eugh. ). I guess if her abilities are that interesting we could take it to a Watch Bhaal and Baggins talk about tabletop RPGs. user talk page or something since I don't like going off topic and derailing things. --Super Bhaal 03:59, 29 October 2007 (UTC)

well, the gnome king has a gold and black mechanostrider (saw it at brewfest), so maybe Sylvanas has one...  IconSmall Gnome Male Ibbert T/C 00:06, 14 December 2007 (UTC)

Did she have brothers?

In DotD 13 it says that Vereesa wanted to follow her brothers and sisters, but this could very well be a manner of speech, and refer to her fellow elves. Saying that Sylvanas has or had brothers isn't nescecarilly correct.

She did have brothers. one younger than veressa and one older. Whether the elder brother was older than sylvannas or alleria is unknown. page 16 WoE. Warthok 23:29, 3 November 2007 (UTC)

Will she ever become good again?

I think maybe when people kill the Lich King the first time she will become alive and thus good again and maybe Varithmas will take over the Forsaken -Gimodon

She is undead, just killing another undead or evil entity doesn't automatically make a corpse "alive".Baggins 22:54, 3 November 2007 (UTC)

Shes undead because of a curse he used on her. Either way I think she will redeem herself somehow! -Gimodon

Why would she need to redeem herself? From her point of view, she has done quite a bit. Established the forsaken, helped bring her bretheren(both living and dead) to the horde, and is planning her revenge on Arthas and the scourge. What exactly needs "redeeming?" --Blayaden 23:12, 3 November 2007 (UTC)

In The Frozen Throne, Sylvanas, after her fail at killing Arthas states that she will Never stop hunting him.

Reedeeming most likely means she is to kill him, slowly and painfuly, and that it is by her hands that she would have him fall.

And in The Reign Of Chaos, Arthas dosen't curse her, he simply raised her and enslaved her as a necromancer does. As a necromancer cannot do anyting without mana, Arthas lost power to reign over her and other minds with the leak in Lich Kings power.

However, if Sylvanas was to hear of magic tp bring undead back to life, I think she would go great lengths to be alive again.

--Zealous 19.52:12, 5 November 2007 (UTC)

Sylvanas is Good at Heart since she Battles the Legion and Arthas, Varimathras cannot take over since he is playing his own game, such as not killing Balnazzar who Enslaved the Scarlet Crusade and is Pounding the Forsaken 24/7. After Arthas is dead, she probably will become Neutral and only wish to command her Forsaken. But as for Varimathras soon he shall get an arrow plucked into his throat.

By that logic, Genghis Khan was a good guy too since he saved little kids from drowning. Sorry, but I don't think actions with good intent will redeem individuals of an evil mentality. You could be a depraved cannibal who tortures his victims before eating them to get a couple of laughs and save a basket of kittens that overthrow an evil dictator ( use your imaginations ), but the fact still remains that you're a depraved cannibal. --Super Bhaal 18:08, 22 February 2008 (UTC)

Since when was Lady Sylvanas "evil"? It's almost the same as most players choosing Alliance because they want to play as the "good guys". I agree with Blayaden. She's done so much for the Forsaken and the Horde. What more does she need to prove that she's already "good"? (Not to comfortable with the terms good or evil cos I personally believe both sides simply reflect a difference of opinion.)". --Bahmat

Too many pictures

This article is beginning to have too many pictures again. I already cleaned it up by putting others in the Gallery below. This doesn't mean to create new pictures or move pictures out of the gallery back into the main article. People should avoid creating a gauntlet of pictures with the text down the middle it screws up the page format and doesnt' work well on different sized monitors, widescrent or normal.Baggins 08:32, 13 November 2007 (UTC)

Finally a new model in 2.4?

I haven't been able to get into the PTR yet, but there's a new female BE skin, which has pale white skin and glowing red eyes. It seems like a no brainer that, with this skin now in the game, they'd probably be giving her a proper dark ranger style model. Anyone with access: Has her model been changed (yet)? Suzaku 22:37, 11 February 2008 (UTC)

Looked: nothing yet~ NotYet.png
Even after I told the model viewer to take data from the PTR she didn't have a new model...
No she has no new model... under that NPC ID, however [2]... Dsmania 10:21, 27 February 2008 (UTC)

--Super Bhaal 01:06, 12 February 2008 (UTC)

In worldofraids last update, someone added a screenshot of what seems to be a new model for Sylvanas, a Blood Elf with the Dark Ranger NPC skin, wearing the same clothing/armor Sylvanas currently wears in game. However, I wouldn't say it is for patch 2.4, but maybe for WotLK, since some other models for WotLK have been extracted from the files in the PTR, such as the male Tuskarr model in the same new and that of a "frostlord" in a previous entry in the page. If you want to see it, it's in the second reply in the thread, this is the link [3].--Morgaur 09:38, 15 February 2008 (UTC)

I was the one that put that screenshot up and the armor I just went through model viewer and put armor on her that was or looked similar to what she has on in game. The skin itself is just a new texture in the NPC skins added to Blood Elfs and would be used for the Dark Rangers in Northrend also. Now it would be nice to see Blizzard finally update Sylvanas to have that model/texture in this patch rather than wait for WotLK. Leviathon 18:52, 15 February 2008 (UTC)
Here's Sylvanas' new model ( okay, a high elf model with the dead high elf skin ), with her armor ( obtained mostly with codes ), as well as her old model wearing the same armor.
--Super Bhaal 16:13, 16 February 2008 (UTC)
Wow, thats pretty spot on! Nice job! (I hope blizzard see's this!)--Blayaden 16:18, 16 February 2008 (UTC)
Why thank you.  :D It'd be kind of silly for them not to give her the new model and still put it on other dark rangers ( Wrath of the Lich King ).
It's kind of funny, as PvErs, PvPers, and RPers have all gotten on Blizzard's case about completely different things-- some pointless and some critical --, have either been regarded or ignored, and have often attacked others stating their needs outweighed those of others...and yet everyone has agreed that Sylvanas' model needed a simple ( on the programmer's part ) reskin, and that was the thing Blizzard was slowest to fix... --Super Bhaal 16:49, 16 February 2008 (UTC)

I am definately for Sylvanas having a new model but that one makes her look like an alien with white-ish grey skin and huge pupiless eyes like that. I mean I don't know if it's the fact that HE&BE eyes have less glow and you can kinda see something other then blue/green, but they look okay in my opinion. So for the people who don't want to read what I wrote and skimmed this, the new model I think is as creepy as Hell and I think we should wait for a less creepy one.  IconSmall HighElf Male Mr.X8 Talk Contribs 03:03, 17 February 2008 (UTC)

I don't know...
She was probably given quite a beating by whatever ghouls or other undead horrors she fought against at the time of her bodily death, and then as the Lament of the Highborne video suggests she was impaled by, well, Frostmourne, a bastard sword that was probably as long as she was tall and full of jagged edges and laced with demonic and necromantic magics. Following, she's said to have been dragged to an altar and tortured ( god only knows how, and god only knows how long ) until she finally died and had her spirit torn from her body. During the couple of months to a year she was a bodiless spirit her body probably got quite dirty ( no one around to manage it, though she looks to have been embalmed ) and started decomposing, and by the time she was "given it back" it was probably irreparably damaged...blood might have pooled in her eyes to turn them red, that kind of thing. Wouldn't you look creepy if your body went through all that and you weren't Duncan MacLeod?
She's still better-looking than most Forsaken elves... --Super Bhaal 04:55, 17 February 2008 (UTC)
I have to say she definitely looks better than if they made her a banshee! I recently checked the Blizzard forums, and there are a TON of threads about Sylvanas and her current model. They HAVE to change it! So many people have commented that they have to... or well ignore it... One of the more common excuses I've heard is that the old model is "familiar" to most players (its in official art, machinima, and in-game since the beginning) and that changing it would cause an uproar... like the "beefing up" of the male blood elves... (I personally didn't care too much) Ah, well. We'll still play the game even if they don't change her. Most people probably don't even care. Outlands and Northrends is where its at nowadays! Now, if they changed an important character like Kael'thas's model... Oop! Never mind! XD--Blayaden 02:17, 18 February 2008 (UTC)
Even if I'd like it or not, lorewise, Sylvanas is (was) a High Elf and this model, tho not perfect, is closer to her intended real appearance. Obviously Blizzard should reconsider giving the racial leaders an unique model, such as any boss around there. It's not a hard job having in count that they can use the animations already created for player models on creature models (such as Fel Orcs, who have player and creature models, or Blood Elf Guards / Kael'thas, who share the same animations with Blood Elfs). Dsmania 10:29, 27 February 2008 (UTC)
Not to mention they're getting paid to do things like that. --Super Bhaal 19:55, 27 February 2008 (UTC)

It's not bad, they can always scale her to look the same height that she always has (as I recall, she's always been scaled taller than a standard night elf). The only problem is that female blood elves look stupid in hoods because it shows a bunch of bald forehead. Blizzard seems to have actually noticed this, because if you look at her hood in her high-elf model in the Lament of the Highborne video, it looks like they've altered the hood a bit ( Suzaku 00:42, 28 February 2008 (UTC)

Nah, it's just a palette-swap of the Tirisfal set's hood. --Super Bhaal 00:51, 28 February 2008 (UTC)


Is it just me or does she seem sort of based off of Artemis the goddess of the hunt. If you think about it she is the best archer in the world something a goddess of hunt would be exceptional at. They are both female. And I'm not sure why, but for some reason I think she doesn't ever want to have to be married as Artemis didn't.srry guys forgot four tides. Geeko 02:34, 18 February 2008 (UTC)

I really don't think so. She's an exceptional archer, and she's female. There are quite a few people like that, and they're not necessarily based off Artemis. And I imagine that if Sylvanas hadn't been turned undead, and things stayed peaceful, she may have gotten married. Ellethwen 06:27, 18 February 2008 (UTC)
As an undead, No. Had she not been turned no not really. Not her nor her sisters. Elune kind of resembles artemis, as does Tyrande. Not tick for tack of course but theres a lot of similarities and similar iconography. Theres really not any known characters with the artemis archetype but a few that are only a few points off. There are a few elven goddesses we know exist, but their personailities (and honestly anything other than their names) are unknown. Warthok Talk Contribs 06:42, 18 February 2008 (UTC)
Shandris maybe. Warthok Talk Contribs 06:43, 18 February 2008 (UTC)

How can that be?

Wowhead has a model of Sylvanas back when she was a High Elf. How can that be possible? For proof go to [4]  IconSmall HighElf Male Mr.X8 Talk Contribs 18:48, 6 April 2008 (UTC)

Watch the Lament of the Highborne.--SWM2448 23:57, 6 April 2008 (UTC)
But that was a movie they made...Sylvanas has never appeared in-game like that... has she? Its an interesting find either way...--Blayaden 00:44, 7 April 2008 (UTC)

And she's a brunette on Wowhead, in the movie she's like a toehead.  IconSmall HighElf Male Mr.X8 Talk Contribs 22:05, 7 April 2008 (UTC)

She looks blonde to me... and what the heck does "toehead" mean?--Blayaden 17:53, 15 April 2008 (UTC)
Toehead means blonde. Warthok Talk Contribs 18:05, 15 April 2008 (UTC)

The net has a surprise!

As I was looking on Google 4 new images I found this: sylvanasro0.jpg Cool huh?Sylvanas 4 WOTLK new model?Halduron

Nope. Fan made photoshop. Warthok Talk Contribs 18:55, 16 April 2008 (UTC)

Silvanas is NOT a queen

She is an empress. A queen is a woman that is royalty and inherits power. (The same could be said about an Empress though.) But an Emperor(es) gains power through conquest (As Sylvanas conquered the Undercity). I can safely say this edit is in my top twenty of the least retarded edits I have made. --The last Alterac (talk) 06:22, 8 May 2008 (UTC)

I'm not going to bother to give you a huge explanation where your definition is wrong (well just a hint, she doesn't rule an empire)... I'm just going to say that the "occupation" originates from the novels, games, rpg, etc.
BTW, I can't say I've seen your definition anywhere...Baggins (talk) 06:29, 8 May 2008 (UTC)
I agree with Baggins. -- ArcaneIconSmall RaidSkull [T | C] 06:34, 8 May 2008 (UTC)

Queen: (Displaying relevant ones)

1. a female sovereign or monarch.
3. a woman, or something personified as a woman, that is foremost or preeminent in any respect: a movie queen; a beauty queen; Athens, the queen of the Aegean.
7. Entomology. a fertile female ant, bee, termite, or wasp.
9. to reign as queen.
10. to behave in an imperious or pretentious manner (usually fol. by it).

In no definition does it state you have to be of royal blood. User:Coobra/Sig3 06:57, 8 May 2008 (UTC)

Aye, no such stringent definition of queen, and even if there was, the definition doesn't reflect the usage in a huge amount of cases, especially in fiction. --   10:42, 8 May 2008 (UTC)

Note that there really isn't any such thing as noble/royal blood... A dynasty is created by the first person to conquer a kingdom, their ancestors then become the noble/royal line unless a coup takes place and someone else takes over. The term noble or royal is just metaphor.Baggins (talk) 19:42, 8 May 2008 (UTC)

Whoever takes over first gets to decide what their title is, and Sylvanas chose to be a queen, just like how Arcturus Mengsk chose to be an emperor, George Washington chose to be a president, and Adolf Hitler chose to be the Fuhrer. -- Dark T Zeratul (talk) 21:36, 8 May 2008 (UTC)

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