Wowpedia talk:Guild pages policy

Past discussions archived to...

• WoWWiki talk:Policy/Writing/Guild pages/Archive01 Up to 27 December 2006
• WoWWiki talk:Policy/Writing/Guild pages/Archive02 27 December 2006 to 7 March 2007.

Change to the Policy: Naming

• Votes and comments archived to WoWWiki talk:Policy/Writing/Guild pages/Archivevote User:Montag/sig1 23:46, 9 April 2007 (EDT)

This proposal is to make a change to WoWWiki:Policy/Writing/Guild_pages#Naming .

See also a slightly different version (though written in a better way than mine) down below this page: Additional Options

• Update: Changed See Also in Were you looking for...?

The Policy

Current Version

We should change:

The guild pages should be the complete name of the guild, i.e. The Mighty Guild

* If the guild name conflicts with another article that article has priority, the guild page can be disambiguated by adding guild or the server name in parenthesis. i.e. The Mighty Guild (guild) or The Mighty Guild (Doomhammer).

* If the guild name conflicts with another guild article then the articles should both contain the guild name followed by the server in parenthesis. A disambiguation page can be created.

* If there is already a disambiguation page (because the guild name conflicts with articles that are already being disambiguated, then the guild can be added to the disambiguation page.

To:

Option 1

The guild pages should be the complete name of the guild followed by the server in parenthesis i.e. The Mighty Guild (Doomhammer)

* There should be a disambiguation page at the page of the guildname, i.e. The Mighty Guild should become a disambiguation page. Guilds with the same name, but on a different server, can then be added to this page.

* If the disambiguation page collides with another article, the article gets priority and the disambiguation should be written at the top of the article in the form of: Were you looking for the guild The Mighty Guild (Doomhammer)?

Reasoning

At the moment, it's just too vague. The rules must be slightly stricter. With the current policy, we are just creating more work for us, as I will show in the following example:

Storm has been brought up in a previous discussion. Those guilds have been changed now and the page is now a disambiguation page, with the server in parenthesis behind it. Imagine that this disambiguation wasn't done, then we would most probably be facing a problem, seeing that the BC brings quite a lot of "Storm"s.

This small example already proves that it is important to change the proposal. However, another problem has risen aswell, the current vague rule is creating a gigantic Chaos. A chaos which will keep players away from using the Wiki. A good example of this is the following:

As some might know, I have been working on Server:Shattered_Hand_Europe. I have asked many players to add their guild to the list. Many of them also wanted to work on their guildpage on the wiki. Sadly enough, there have been 2 guilds who have gotten a problem, Skull Squadron and Grand Crusader. Skull Squadron has the problem of colliding with another guild (a Guild on Blackhand_US). Grand Crusader collides with a small fact of lore, not big, but lore nonetheless. Consequences are that both are reluctant to start working on their guild page, which means in a smaller player flow for the wiki.

Confusion should be avoided at all costs. We, the mass editers, are used to the wiki. Many new persons aren't. Imagine if one of those actually has superior scripting and writing abilities. If he gets addicted to the wiki, it would be a great add to WoWwiki. Also, we want the wiki to attract persons to look things up, but if they can't create their guilds on it, they will be reluctant to check up other things aswell. This alone is a reason to make clearer and stricter rules regarding the naming of certain pages, both userpages as Guildpages. Today we are handling guildpages!

Notes: This change can still get a few small changes, concerning what happens if it collides with another real article. To me it looked as if putting a "See also" on the bottom was the best choice.

Option 2

Guild page name

The title of an article on a World of Warcraft guild should always be the complete name of the guild followed by the realm and two letter location abbreviation in parentheses (e.g., The Mighty Guild (Doomhammer US)).

Disambiguation pages

Use the rules below to determine when and how disambiguation pages for guild articles should be created. As always, wherever a disambiguation page is created, it should be linked at the top of all articles it lists. As well, guilds with similar names should link to each other. For example, on The Mighty Guild (Doomhammer US), include "Were you looking for Mighty Guild (Shadowsong EU)?"

No conflict with non-guild article

If the guild name (without the realm and location information, e.g. The Mighty Guild) does not conflict with the name of an existing, non-guild article, then it may be either:

• made into a disambiguation page for all guilds sharing that name, or,
• if there is only one guild of that name, redirected to that guild's article.

Conflict with non-guild article

If the guild name is the same as the name of an existing, non-guild article, then:

• If a disambiguation article already exists, add the guild page links to that article (e.g. add the link to The Sundering (Cenarius US) to the disambiguation page Sundering.)

If a disambiguation article does not exist, create one at Articlename (disambiguation). Include links to the original article and any guilds of that name (e.g. create Conviction (disambiguation), with links to [Conviction], Conviction (Steamwheedle Cartel US) and Conviction (Suramar US).)

Near conflicts

If a guild's name is slightly different from, but likely to be confused with, a non-guild article, redirect Guildname to the non-guild article, and create a disambiguation page at Articlename (disambiguation). For example if the guild name is "The Brotherhood of the Horse", which could easily be confused with the article Brotherhood of the Horse:

1. Make the page at The Brotherhood of the Horse a redirect to Brotherhood of the Horse.
2. Create a disambiguation page at Brotherhood of the Horse (disambiguation) linking to Brotherhood of the Horse and The Brotherhood of the Horse (Cenarion Circle US).

Reasoning

This is generally similar to the above version, but incorporates some changes based on the discussion below. Primarily, it requires the location ("EU/US" etc.) to always follow the realm name. This will provide greater consistency, and make guild article names easy to determine without having to check whether there is a US and European version of the realm. It also includes clarification on how to handle a couple of potential situations would could arise.

Option 3

Full policy text and proposal: User:Montag/Guild pages

All guild articles will be moved to the Guild namespace. From then on, all guilds will be created and maintained in the Guild namespace. Although all guild articles will still be in Category:Guilds, a guild article banner will no longer be required at the top of each guild page (thought this is optional). All articles will be followed by their server name and country code in parentheses. Example: Guild:The Mighty Guild (Arthas US). If only one guild exists with that name, it can make Guild:The Mighty Guild a redirect to its own page. If more than one guild exists, the clean version will be made into a disambiguation page with a list of all those guild articles. User:Montag/sig 09:27, 9 March 2007 (EST)

Implementing the new policy

Sky sent me some guidelines on how to implement this policy effectively. It's going to take some repetitive work, but it's certainly not too big a task to take on for a couple dedicated people. I'll reprint some of the guidelines here:

1. Check the history page to see if they have been updated since the beginning of February (date is arbitrary, so I figured just after TBC was released is the best date)
   1. If the article has been updated recently, we move it to Guild: and the proper parenthetical suffix
   2. If the article has been updated between 3 to 6 months ago, we tag it with {{Stub/Guild}} and wait out the appropriate 30 days.
   3. If the article has not been updated within the past 6 months (November?), we tag it with a {{speedydelete}}

Using these guidelines, we move as few pages as possible and clean out Category:Guilds. Sky's last suggestion involved making sure articles were sorted by guild name and didn't show up in the "G" section, but I'm pretty sure {{guild}} handles that properly. If it doesn't, we can edit it so it does. ~

I'd also love if someone made sure that new editors can easily and correctly start guild pages. That is, trace the path a new editor has to take from the Main Page to starting a guild article for their guild and make sure it isn't too confusing, too long or too obtuse. I may have some time for this myself, but it'd be easier for me if someone else handled it and wrote up recommendations for changes either here or on the Village pump. User:Montag/sig1 11:52, 10 April 2007 (EDT)

Discussion

I think that many authors of guild pages start at the corresponding server pages, where red links are. Though I have no idea how we can place a note there except on the server pages directly -watchout 14:09, 10 April 2007 (EDT)

Speaking from personal experience, it was quite easy for me to go from the home page to find this page with instructions on how to correctly name my guild page. Also, shouldn't this policy be changed from Ratified to Adopted? Psyche 13:11, 18 April 2007 (EDT)

It is not Adopted until all guild pages are correctly named and have the correct templates according to the policy. I havn't checked, but is it allready done? Linkan 15:07, 18 April 2007 (EDT)

Defunct Guilds: Delete 'em?

Often, when a guild runs dry and turns belly up, an author of the guild page will mark the page for deletion and go on with life. Sometimes, they merely leave a note saying the guild broke up and where some of the members went. In this case, should we delete the page after a certain amount of time, say, 6 monthes? Unless the guild made a true impression on the game, I feel any longer then this is rather silly. If a page hasn't been edited in a long time, it's also possible to check the Armory to see if any members are still in it. --Mikaka 07:20, 18 May 2007 (UTC)

I've had this conversation before. :) User talk:Montag#implementation of new guild policy --Sky (t · c · w) 07:23, 18 May 2007 (UTC)
Alternatively, just look above! WoWWiki talk:Policy/Writing/Guild pages#Implementing the new policy. :) --Sky (t · c · w) 07:27, 18 May 2007 (UTC)

Laurlybot Patrolling

As you may or may not have noticed over the last week User:Laurlybot has been cleaning up Category:Guilds. For a full list of what she does exactly to a guild page please check her user page. Note: I still run her checks manually so that i can babysit her while she is processing to approve the changes. Once she is stable i will set her up for a daily run.Laurly 07:38, 20 June 2007 (UTC)

Can/should bot remove the {{Stub/Guild}} Tag

• Assuming she finds a server for a guild and that guild does in fact exist on said server she is able to make sure the page complies with guild page policy. ex. She fixes the name, adds all the correct categories, makes sure its tagged {{Guild}}. Laurly 07:38, 20 June 2007 (UTC)

The only categories she cant make comply with policy is

• [[Category:PvE Guilds]], [[Category:PvP Guilds]], [[Category:RP Guilds]] – Choose the one which most closely matches your play-style.

My question is should i have her remove the {{Stub/Guild}} tag? Once she is done the page should now complies with everything else. Should we wait for a human to come and add [[Category:PvE Guilds]], [[Category:PvP Guilds]], [[Category:RP Guilds]]?Laurly 07:38, 20 June 2007 (UTC)

Guild Page Length

There are a lot of guild that have simply a link to there web page i SD'ed most of them but there are some others that simply have one line saying who the guild leader is or something like that. Do we want to require some size like must be more then 100 characters minus all the categories tags and template tags?Laurly 07:38, 20 June 2007 (UTC)

Guild Sub Pages

Sub Category

The bot has been getting confused on guild sub page's that appear in the guild category. Should these be in a sub category under the guild page itself? If they are then we will need a new tag that places on the page the same text but wont force it into the guilds category like {{Guild}} does. If we allow them to stay in the guild category then potently we have a lot of pages cluttering that category up.Laurly 07:38, 20 June 2007 (UTC)

The only problem with moving them to sub categories is that i will have to have the bot scan the sub cat to add SD if the guild is disbanded but thats doable.Laurly 07:38, 20 June 2007 (UTC)

Naming Policy

We need a naming policy on these as well. i have seen "Guild: Guildname/progression", "Guild: Guildname (Servername/progression)" ,"Guild: Guildname-progression(Servername)" and probably a few others.Laurly 07:38, 20 June 2007 (UTC)

Ok thats it sorry i added so much. I signed each section to make it easer for others to reply there. Laurly 07:38, 20 June 2007 (UTC)

Redirects

Removed information regarding the creation of redirects, they are unneeded. If the articles are named properly, conflicts are not possible. --GRYPHON^tc 18:30, 16 July 2007 (UTC)

Members and History

The Guild Template mentions that things on the guild page could be related to Roleplaying or the like. Is that a hint to say that making pages for guild toons/members is ok? Like Guild:The_Claw_(Deathwing_EU)/Leord. Also, compressing over three years worth of history into a few paragraphs leaves much details out. What would be an optimal longest history section, or for that matter rules or guild progress? --Leord 03:46, 22 January 2008 (UTC)