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| + | [[Image:Lake Jorune.jpg|thumb|Lake Jorune]] |
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| − | ==Sindassi/Thalassian== |
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| + | [[Lake Jorune]] is located in central [[Terokkar Forest]]. It is only available to those who have flight. The lake itself lies in a nook in the mountains just above [[Stonebreaker Hold]]. There is an [[arakkoa]] settlement on the shores of the lake. With the addition of [[Skettis]] there are now friendly arakkoa NPCs in the huts around the small lake, but they do not seem to have any quests to give or items to sell. |
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| − | If you missed the news, in Burning Crusade(as well as the spin off material), Blood Elves speak Thallasian, there is no evidence of a "Sindassi" language at this point.[[User:Baggins|Baggins]] 12:00, 10 November 2006 (EST) |
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| − | == Signing == |
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| + | There is an NPC by the name of [[Sar'this]] located in the biggest house near the lake. He is part of the [[Netherwing]] Faction Quest Line. |
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| − | Please to be remembering to sign your comments in the talk pages using (<nowiki> ~~~~ </nowiki>), it makes it a lot easier to see who says what. {{User:Coobra/Sig3}} 19:58, 5 March 2008 (UTC) |
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| − | == Lirath == |
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| + | This area (along with the [[Lake Ere'Noru]] and [[Blackwind Lake]] [[subzone|subzones]] in [[Terokkar Forest]]) is one of the only three bodies of water where you may find [[Highland Mixed School|Highland Mixed Schools]], from which you may catch {{loot|rare|Mr. Pinchy}}. |
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| − | Sorry, I was afk while creating his model (Relatives, status, image etc) Okay, he's creating now, I am in the middle of Beyond the Dark Portal (page 234) so I am not sure if there is more on him, If you can find someone (Or you) to expand it, it will be very good news! |
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| − | == Hey Oponyxal == |
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| + | The name of the lake is a reference to the ''Skyrealms of Jorune'' pen-and-paper roleplaying game from the '80s and early '90s. |
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| − | I saw you changed my |
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| + | {{Zone Map|zone=Terokkar Forest|notes= |
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| − | Duna |
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| + | {{Zone Map Note|45|40|Blip|Lake Jorune}} |
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| + | }} |
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| − | (they / the others / them) to agree |
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| + | {{Terokkar Forest}} |
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| − | and |
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| + | [[Category:Lakes]] |
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| − | Falore |
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| − | Yes/indeed/agreed to |
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| − | to sister. |
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| − | You see the meaning: Ana'duna falore, iszera duna bantallas. |
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| − | You think duna means agree. Duna is used twice, see? But they still dont say "Yes sister I agree, The greens agree are primitive. What i think is that duna means THEM /many. And since Ana is presumed to mean "I" based on several sentences it must mean that Ana'duna means "us" or something similar. If you look at this again. |
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| − | Ana'duna falore, iszera duna bantallas. |
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| − | This must mean something like, word by word: |
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| − | Many-I(Us) agree(yes), green them(green skins) are primitive. |
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| − | To me that duna would be agree and falore would be sister makes no sense. |
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| − | Faeniel on Magtheridon 15:33, March 4, 2010 (UTC) |
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| − | == Okay... == |
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| − | Your translations had a point but there are still some questionmarks. |
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| − | So with your translation to the according diccionary it says: |
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| − | "My sister, green skins are primitive." |
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| − | "Ana" to you means "my", when it on another standard means "it": |
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| − | you said: "Ana'/it duna/is, falore/sister. Izsera/the green ones duna/are/ bantallas/primitive." |
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| − | Look, here is another sentence with no "it", you meant that "ana" meant "my": |
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| − | Ana'duna thera - Revenge will be ours. (you translated it to our true revenge) still no "it" |
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| − | Ana'tole na Dure - I will do it for nature (you translated it to my effort to the nature) |
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| − | So, does ana mean "my/our" or "it" to you? with your other translations as duna as "my" and not "it", the translation would be |
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| − | "Ana'/'''MY''' duna/is, falore/sister. Izsera/the green ones duna/are/ bantallas/primitive." |
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| − | So: My is, sister, the green ones are primitive? |
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| − | Makes no sense. Maybe you don't know this, but there are actually languages(e.g Spanish) who work that way that you never actually say the word "am/is/are" in a sentence, it could be that this word is "hanging" on to another word. Depending on how the words ends, you know who its referring to. And yes Ana'duna could be two sentences, but that DOESN'T say just because you translated it to your mothertounge that the word still isn't two words. Ana'duna can still mean "us", although "us" is two words in Darnassian. |
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| − | For me, it still makes sense if: |
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| − | * Ana means me |
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| − | * Duna means others |
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| − | * Ana'duna means me-others (another word for "us", which is another word for "sister" since this group is made of only female night elfs) |
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| − | * Falore yes/agree |
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| − | Then the sentence "Ana'duna falore. Izsera duna bantallas" would be: |
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| − | Me-others(us/sister) agree. Green others (are) primitive. |
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| − | This might sound like jibberish to you, but it makes sense to me. |
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| − | ::It's got logic to it, but it's still a bit messed up in my ears. Try looking at the phrases section further down, where the sentences are deciphered word by word, and tell me it doesn't make sense. |
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| − | ::: Well the phrases do make sense, but you are using the same word over and over again but with different meaning. |
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| − | :::: Not as far as I can see it now. Examples (from the current revision)? |
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| − | ::::: Well i edited it. And I will continue editing your editions. I never said I-others and yes is the same. Falore is and has always been yes/agree/indeed and Ana'duna is I-others/us/sister. Just because they say: Yes sister in the English version the '''ORDER''' of the words in Darnassian might not be the same. In Swedish it's not. And not in Spanish either. |
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| − | ::::: Darnassian/''My direct translation''/'''English translation''' |
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| − | ::::: Ana'duna/''I-others''/'''sister''' falore/''agree''/'''Yes'''. |
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| − | == Working toward a descriptive grammar for Darnassian == |
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| − | '''A descriptive grammar of Darnassian''' |
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| − | As a side project, I've taken it upon myself to attempt a descriptive grammar of both Darnassian and Thalassian. By descriptive grammar, I mean: ''Descriptive grammar (definition #1) refers to the structure of a language as it is actually used by speakers and writers. Prescriptive grammar (definition #2) refers to the structure of a language as certain people think it should be used.'' |
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| − | More than just vocabulary - this grammar would encompass verb forms, tenses, syntactic structure, idioms and phrases, naming conventions, and vocabulary as well. The descriptive part means that it would rely on source material in a strict way - with '''primary sources''' being definitions from Blizzard itself, '''secondary sources''' being either Blizzard-official phrases where only context was given, or sources from semi-official publications or notes (novels or developer notes/comments), or the "gibberish" language engines as they provide words with no real meaning, and '''tertiary sources''' would be everything else - including community speculation not founded on any of the above. |
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| − | It involves working backward from whatever phrases are available, diagramming sentences, isolating parts of speech, finding consistent patterns or rules, and then applying and extending them so that they work for "most" cases, with a best use percentage being somewhere between 80-90% of cases. |
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| − | This should also be workable so that you can take any part of it and interchange it with any other part in a usable format. |
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| − | This is going to involve a lot of speculation, but hopefully can be done without losing too much. What I want to avoid is throwing out five different consistent cases because one case doesn't fit - it should be the other way around. Also, since a lot of the language just isn't written, this is going to take a bit more of community effort to expand it - in a way consistent with the grammar - and maybe make Blizzard or other writers aware of it. Absolutely open to suggestions! But everyone should remember this is a game - let's be flexible on definitions and friendly with each other. |
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| − | Right now I am just using this in my own characters and gameplay. |
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| − | About me: I am a Linux technical coordinator by day who has studied Japanese, French, Spanish, Latin, Finnish, Russian, Chinese and a mix of other languages, in about that order of fluency. |
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| − | I have already worked out verb tenses in Daranssian that work in nearly all the cases I have encountered, although it has made for some interesting translations of previously translated (by community members) material. [[User:Mushan|Mushan]] ([[User talk:Mushan|talk]]) 11:06, March 29, 2010 (UTC) |
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| − | == re: Ana'duna falore, iszera duna bantallas. == |
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| − | This is a tricky one, all right! |
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| − | The problem with the current translations for this phrase is that they conflict with several other translations; none of them are consistent. I think we can find consistency though without sacrificing meaning. |
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| − | I think it is generally agreed that 'ana' is an article modifying 'duna,' that 'iszera' is a noun that refers to 'greenskins,' and that 'bantallas' refers to the state or act of being primitive. |
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| − | So the object of the sentence is 'iszera.' |
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| − | In the translation offered (also, where is the source of that translation?), Ana'duna likely means 'For truth,' which fits with no problems or conflicts. 'Duna' then repeats. |
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| − | ::'''''Ana'duna falore, iszera duna bantallas.''''' |
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| − | ::'''For true _____, greenskins true _____.''' |
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| − | Now, I have to disagree that falore actually means sister - my reason for this is because of other translations of verb forms and usage. To me (based on all other phrases available), -ore makes most sense as the infinitive verb tense - while fal- is a verb root (as in ''Andu-falah-dor'', or "Let nature/balance '''be restored'''". |
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| − | Falore is also not used anywhere else for sister, while we see the -ore infinitive being used in the phrase "Elune-adore," so I think this is closer. |
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| − | If "falore" is an infinitive verb, it could be used in the sense of "to reply" - "falah" for instances means "restored/replenished" in "Andu-falah-dor". |
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| − | Darnassian also often puts verbs at the end of clauses, such that "Ana'duna falore" would come to mean literally "For truth to restore/replenish," or idiomatically, "To reply truthfully" or perhaps even something closer to "to set the record straight." |
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| − | In English, for instance, the idiom "To set the record straight" means "to correct an incorrect statement," and does not literally refer to setting any actual record in a straight line; it essentially means "to restore truth." In any event, a case could be made for this. |
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| − | This lets us keep ''-ore'' as a verb ending and ''duna'' as true/truth - Darnassian doesn't have to follow English rules of grammar, but it does have to be consistent with itself. |
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| − | Bantallas might then be an irregular present plural form of "being primitive" or "(they) are primitive." |
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| − | |||
| − | So the new literal translation would be: |
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| − | ::'''To restore for truth, greenskins are true primitive.''' |
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| − | But the idiomatic translation (real meaning) would be: |
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| − | ::'''To reply truthfully /or/ To set the record straight, greenskins are truly primitive.''' |
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| − | I'm really not ''that'' happy with this translation, but the other one just did not make any sense. This at least works idiomatically - it's not as if Blizzard hired a linguist to work this out before hand, but this is what we have. :( [[User:Mushan|Mushan]] ([[User talk:Mushan|talk]]) 12:09, March 29, 2010 (UTC) |
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Revision as of 12:01, 9 October 2010
Lake Jorune
Lake Jorune is located in central Terokkar Forest. It is only available to those who have flight. The lake itself lies in a nook in the mountains just above Stonebreaker Hold. There is an arakkoa settlement on the shores of the lake. With the addition of Skettis there are now friendly arakkoa NPCs in the huts around the small lake, but they do not seem to have any quests to give or items to sell.
There is an NPC by the name of Sar'this located in the biggest house near the lake. He is part of the Netherwing Faction Quest Line.
This area (along with the Lake Ere'Noru and Blackwind Lake subzones in Terokkar Forest) is one of the only three bodies of water where you may find Highland Mixed Schools, from which you may catch [Mr. Pinchy].
The name of the lake is a reference to the Skyrealms of Jorune pen-and-paper roleplaying game from the '80s and early '90s.
