# Talk:Melee diminishing returns

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## Open questions / Data needed Edit

• Do block rating and defense rating suffer from DR? (the tooltips says they do for my tankadin). If so data is needed for these as well.
• Are there miss caps for classes other than warriors, paladins, and death knights?
• Base dodge calculated by Whitetooth - is this dodge contributed from base agility? If so, how can it be negative for rogues?

Thanks, -Howbizr (talk) 20:50, 7 March 2009 (UTC)

The dodge and parry chance granted by defense rating suffer from diminishing returns however block chance does not. [1]
Presumably there are miss caps for all classes and diminishing returns apply to the reduced chance to be hit granted by defense rating. However those caps will be difficult to calculate for any class which does not normally equip large amount of +defense rating gear.
Zalambar (talk) 20:56, 8 March 2009 (UTC)
If I'm reading correctly, this formula calculates d, which is the value of an avoidance stat after it has been diminished. ::Isn't the equation more clear if it's put as this?
 d = 1 / ( (1 / c) + (k / b) )
This makes the variable d isolated, which is what we want... as far as I can tell there is nothing useful of just 1 / d by itself.
I did some algebra and it also comes out as this, which might be clearer:
 d = bc / (b + kc)
Harkathmaker (talk) 02:01, 22 May 2009 (UTC)
• It looks like Harkathmaker's suggestion has been incorporated already.
• The paladin tooltip (and presumably others) has been updated and no longer has the DR note, supporting Zalambar's findings.
• I'm still not sure about the business with rogues, but it appear that avoidance stats contributed from agility and defense are diminished as well. The key is to total the entire stat as a percentage and then diminish at the end. Do not attempt to diminish the rating, or else you will become very confused why your numbers are wonky. (technical term - wonky)  Howbizr(t·c) 4:07 PM, 6 Jun 2009 (EDT)

## Merge candidate Edit

See Diminishing returns for any discussion about the merge.  Howbizr(t·c) 4:34 PM, 6 Jun 2009 (EDT)

## Examples Edit

Given the convoluted factors involved in calculating this formula, we should get a few examples. Maybe one for each class. -K10wn (talk) 04:41, 22 July 2009 (UTC)

Can you describe how much detail you think is needed? Ideally, make me a fake examples section, and I'll put in the real math on the article.  Howbizr(t·c) 9:25 AM, 22 Jul 2009 (EDT)

## Graph Edit

I was having trouble wrapping my head around how those formulas would look, so I whipped up a graph of the curves for dodge, parry, and miss chance for the tanking classes using the data on this page. Would this be useful to the general public? If so, I'll put it on the main page. I can easily make it smaller if it's too big.

On the x-axis is the your character's total undiminished bonus (b in the formula), and on the y-axis is the bonus after diminishing returns are applied (d in the formula).