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The Missing Aspect

As it stands right now, Neltharion aka Deathwing is the only Aspect who is not included in WotLK, we've all speculated exactly where he is, but if you look at the current situation on Azeroth and Nalice being present at the Wyrmrest Temple it is possible he is well aware of things happening through her and could possibly use it to his advantage. Now I could care less where he is, I am just curious if he will make an appearance in the game. What are your opinions? We've seen everyone else, so there really is no reason for Deathwing not to appear at some point --Saphiredragon89 (talk) 04:42, 19 July 2008 (UTC)

This is not a forum. --Ragestorm (talk · contr) 15:09, 19 July 2008 (UTC)

I know that, but you gotta admit it's obvious that Deathwing won't exactly be out of the loop for long. --Saphiredragon89 (talk) 15:16, 19 July 2008 (UTC)

Oh, I totally agree, but discussion pages are for editorial comments only. Feel free to continue this on usertalk. --Ragestorm (talk · contr) 15:19, 19 July 2008 (UTC)

Disagree re: Deathwing one of the few viable post-Arthas bosses

The quote:

"Deathwing is one of the few remaining characters in Warcraft Lore who could possibly fit as a raid boss that would be a considerable challenge to a raid that has already defeated the Lich King, the list of which also includes Sargeras or other Titans, or Old Gods."

I'm not sure I agree with this. The list, as far as I can tell would include:

• Most of the inhabitants of the planes (e.g. Emerald Dream, etc.)
• Most of Seargas's upper-echelon of Burning Legion demons (each of which is individually on-par with the Lich King, at least, though not as powerful as, say, Archimonde)
• The other 2 dragon aspects
• All of the other Titans
• Any dark naaru that isn't as nearly completely drained as M'uru was in Sunwell
• And light naaru for that matter, though what could turn them against the players is an interesting question
• Any Old God that is fully manifest in our reality (it's not clear why C'Thun was so weak, but they are terrifyingly powerful)
• Queen Azshara, though she's likely the end-boss of the next expansion, which is speculated to be Maelstrom-centered
  • Any of Queen Azshara's higher-ranking minions
• Quite possibly many of the residents of Argus
• An unknown host of things from the Twisting Nether, which we're told holds terrible and powerful things

That's just off the top of my head. I think the statement needs to be tempered a bit. -Deepone (talk) 22:10, 5 August 2008 (UTC)

No, no, you're quite wrong, totally and utterly. It needs to be removed, not tempered!

Oh, but yeah, you're generally right, but I don't think we should be taking unknowns into account. --Ragestorm (talk · contr) 01:01, 6 August 2008 (UTC)

Hmm... hard to figure out if you're agreeing with me or not ;-) That said, I do agree with the sentiment that Deathwing is one of the handful of remaining "end boss lore characters," so if the statement were re-aligned around that idea, I think it could work. Something like:

Deathwing is one of the few remaining lore characters who pose sufficient threat and have sufficient back-story to be used as future "end boss" material for expansions. Likely fits would include any expansion centered around the Old Gods or Dragonflights.

That's both more informative and more grounded in what we know. -Deepone (talk) 12:41, 6 August 2008 (UTC)

Yours is better writing, Deepone, but I don't think we need to mention it at all. If Blizz makes him a raid boss, they make him a raid boss, if they don't they don't. We don't need justifications for actions that are purely speculatory.--Ragestorm (talk · contr) 14:49, 6 August 2008 (UTC)

And yet your list is quite wrong, as the quote states he's one of the few remaing characters in lore. Going by what we saw so far, lore is everything that was there before AQ, everything after more or less are new additions. (hope that was rather undestandable). therefor, the naaru are new lore, while only deathwing, sargeras, Ysera, Nozdormu, azshara, xavius and perhabs the old gods and titans remain as lore-bosses...--Maibe (talk) 15:01, 6 August 2008 (UTC)

This is your official non-editorial warning take it to the usertalks, and analysis page, whatever.

Round 2 goes to Maibe.--Ragestorm (talk · contr) 20:43, 6 August 2008 (UTC)

What did I do?--Maibe (talk) 22:35, 6 August 2008 (UTC)

I think Rage is saying you won round two. --Super Bhaal (talk) 01:17, 7 August 2008 (UTC)

But why? i'm getting all confused as someone apparently isn't signing his messages Dx--Maibe (talk) 10:01, 7 August 2008 (UTC)

I would actually disagree with Maibe. The idea of lore, as i see it, is ever changing. It is unfair to define 'lore' by a set time period, because Blizzard is always reworking it to make it more interesting. For example, their original interpretation of the War of the Ancients was rather dull, so they created the whole Ahn'Qiraj event just to give them an excuse to write the old gods into it later on. This also gave us a reason why Deathwing became the embodiment of evil that he is, whereas before he was just invented to be a dragon hero for WC2. In any case, the lore is not solid and concrete until long after Blizzard has perfected this game; in that since, every boss is a lore boss.

Sign your posts. Darigaaz the Igniter (talk)

No matter the "official" designation of the word's meaning, to most if not all players the word "Lore" has come to mean "The Storyline Behind the Game". This includes all new story, such as the Naaru, the Draenei, the Death Knights, etc. IMHO it should be used thus to avoid confusion. ~My rage bar is blue and I start the fight pissed - Peregrine 01:48, 30 December 2008 (UTC)

Mount Hyjal

I think the entrance is merely a recycled model, not an evidence to Deathwing's whereabouts. There are a many models and meshes ingame that have been used over and over again, and I doubt we should jump to conclusions just we see a model beeing reused...--Maibe (talk) 01:10, 25 August 2008 (UTC)

Possible Boss

Could it be possible that Deathwing will become a boss in the World of Warcraft ?(Entaro Adun)(DarckArchon)

Please sign your posts properly, and please see above. --Ragestorm (talk · contr) 13:43, 1 October 2008 (UTC)

Removing the part about NotD

I took the liberty to remove the portion about his doing in NoTD. Even though this part and the part on Lady Sinestra's page(removed as well) have been written by the same guy, they contradict each other. While here it reads Deathwing uses old black eggs to create the twilight flight on Sinestra's page it reads she is down beneath Grim Batol using a nether drake and black dragon eggs.--Maibe (talk) 14:42, 9 November 2008 (UTC)

Since Night of the Dragon hasn't been released yet, both of those theories are pure speculation and should be removed. -- Dark T Zeratul (talk) 07:14, 10 November 2008 (UTC)

Along with the pages GoldenYak (the contributor) created in this matter. Could one of you folks do that? I think only admins can delete full pages. But: it is possible he has one of the one-week-early version, but still he shouldn't update the pages.--Maibe (talk) 14:10, 10 November 2008 (UTC)

Remove the section "Current Location"

With the release of Night of the Dragon, it is known where Deathwing resides making this section based on speculation entirely pointless.--Dcemuser (talk) 16:17, 3 December 2008 (UTC)

It usually takes us a few weeks to update with recently released book information. We like to give people time to read the thing before putting spoilers up.--Ragestorm (talk · contr) 16:47, 3 December 2008 (UTC)

IIRC the rule is two weeks, which we've already passed. I also find that rule oddly converse to the "We don't mark spoilers" warning at the top of the main page, but that's another issue. -- Dark T Zeratul (talk) 19:35, 3 December 2008 (UTC)

Alterac

Did he actually get crowned King of Alterac? If so, shouldn't that be one of his titles? User:Jormungand01/sig

If so, yes, but I don't think he did. --Ragestorm (talk · contr) 21:17, 24 December 2008 (UTC)

He was named so, but he was never crowned...so you could say that he was elected, but never took office. And if you never took office, you can't really assume the title. That's how I see it, anywho... --Joshmaul (talk) 09:00, 28 December 2008 (UTC)

Technically, it was Lord Daval Prestor who was picked to be king. But like Joshmaul said, Lord Prestor "disappeared" before the coronation event. Rolandius (talk - contr) 12:00, 28 December 2008 (UTC)

Ulduar?

Is it possible that he is going to be in the Ulduar Raid? It is Old God based, aparantly, and he is corrupted by the Old Gods, and since he is the only aspect to currently not be in-game, it might be possible. User:Nightfox Takahashi

Possible, but I don't see why he would leave the safety of Grim Batol for Ulduar. I don't consider it very likely. Xavius, the Satyr Lord 15:28, 21 February 2009 (UTC)

How do we know he's in Grim Batol?

Forgive me, I've been out of touch, but... how do we know he's down there? I haven't seen any quests, books, references, anything. ~My rage bar is blue and I start the fight pissed - Peregrine 19:28, 24 February 2009 (UTC)

Technically he's really far under Grim Batol, not in it, but to answer your question read Night of the Dragon. -- Dark T Zeratul (talk) 19:58, 24 February 2009 (UTC)

aaaaah, what just on my way here to say "never mind, just read NotD again and remembered the ending!" LOL thanks though. ~My rage bar is blue and I start the fight pissed - Peregrine 20:57, 24 February 2009 (UTC)

Shouldn't the contents of his current location be edited to match the time line we now they are going to follow? I.E. he is currently in the earthen realm, will burst forth, and then work to perfect his twilight dragon flight and be successful prior to player interaction? Right now the head of the article says he is currently IN Grim Batol but we know as far as World of Warcraft to be concerned, that this is false, further evidenced (though probably not technically relevant) that it is currently red dragonkin roaming the grim batol area. Pseud (talk) 18:40, September 1, 2009 (UTC)

The book states that he is currently dwelling far under Grim Batol, but we know that soon he will "burst out from Deepholm, tearing a rift between the Elemental Plane and Azeroth, causing the Cataclysm".

That might either be a retcon of his hiding place, or he moved to Deepholm after NotD, or NotD could have meant that this place far below Grim Batol was in fact Deepholm.

In anyway, Metzen's version (Deathwing hiding and healing in Deepholm) is the choosen one, because it is the "official lore" unlike books. (yes weird sentence)

Loremaster A'noob, Arch Druid of the Noobhoof Clan (^talk/_contribz) 18:52, September 1, 2009 (UTC)

One could make the argument that the two statements are not irreconcilable as Deepholm could be interpreted to be beneath Grim Batol, generally speaking and that Deathwing's re-emergence in the game which is supposed to realign the locations of the elemental planes is a consequence of this. There's no direct contradiction perhaps but the article needs a little work on narrative consistency at least as far as we know things to be now, if only to show the changes over time. Pseud (talk) 19:22, September 1, 2009 (UTC)

Knaack confirmed in a interview that Blizzard actually retconned the end of the book for whatever reason. Now his current location seems to be unknown in a way since on one hand they made it seem he went to Grim Batol but at the same time they heavily hint he went back to Deephome and is in the Temple of Earth. Leviathon (talk) 20:14, September 1, 2009 (UTC)

I think we can probably safely assume the Cataclysm story to be the official one at this point, but considering the importance of this character to the lore and game shortly, the article will need some "to the best of our knowledge" attention when we have more knowledge to apply to it. In the meantime if that was indeed true about the interview, the Grim Batol statement is now factually inaccurate on the page, though once again the "How deep below" distance could be semantic. Pseud (talk) 20:27, September 1, 2009 (UTC)

Speculation section of Deathwing's Page should be removed

It may be speculation but there is no evidence behind that belief. Malfurion even mentioned in a quest, the Scepter chain I believe, that an Old God was causing the corruption. It was a random, senseless edit to the Deathwing page and I think it should be removed before it causes a wrong idea. I am a lore nerd, a big lore nerd, and I cringe when I see that speculation, personally. --Illidari (talk) 08:23, 16 March 2009 (UTC)

Seeing as how the section has no real basis and only makes peripheral sense... I'm inclined to agree. --Ragestorm (talk · contr) 01:42, 17 March 2009 (UTC)

Why was his humanoid form a human?

In the vision of Yogg-Saron's dabble in time where he showed he corrupted Neltharion into Deathwing to create the Dragon Soul, later known as the Demon Soul, why was his form a human? And why was Malygos' a High Elf? It was during the time of the War of the Ancients. Before the Highborne actually began to evolve into High Elves and before Vrykul became cursed and began producing human babies. How did they take on these forms? The races didn't exist then. I can understand the need to make them humanoids due the fact that Blizz hasn't created unique dragon models for Ysera and Neltharion, but wouldn't've Blizz caught that? They all should've been Night Elves, or possibly tauren and earthen. I think Blizz should've made all the Aspects' models before Wrath. Nozdormu and Ysera make appearances constantly. Deathwing was of course bound to appear. Plus they never took humanoid forms, besides Ysera who spoke with Malfurion in the Dream and currently Alexstrasza at Wyrmrest. Any thoughts on this to shed some light? Mykael Mourningsun

We know, but i'm not sure what you want us to say, you already said it all: Blizzard messed up. But this isn't the place to discuss this topic, talk pages aren't forums, they are for discussing changes to the article. I suggest either our new forums or blizzards official forums.Warthok Talk Contribs 18:58, 2 June 2009 (UTC)

Already said on every talk page of the people present (in books) and absent (in game).

Yogg-Saron's mind is highly inacurate.

Loremaster A'noob, Arch Druid of the Noobhoof Clan (^talk/_contribz) 19:03, 2 June 2009 (UTC)

Okay, here's the deal. According to ancient history, the events that lead to the whole Vrykul/Human connection occurred about 15,000 years B.F.W (before the First War); in these events, some of the misshapen Vrykul offspring were smuggled away to avoid execution, eventually becoming the Azotha, the first human ancestors. We then move to the War of the Ancients, which occurred somewhere around 10,000 B.F.W. Not only is this a long enough timespan for humans to develop, but it is written in the novel series that the demigoddess Aviana protected a grou of humans from a demon attack. Therefore, it is safe to assume that Humans had been around long enough for Neltharion to take notice of them and decide to use their form as his own. Case closed! —The preceding unsigned comment was added by JPlowman2 (talk · contr).

profile pic blurred

The scaled-down version of the image is rather blurry, not what you could expect from an image of that size. Is there something wrong with the auto-scaling tool? Because the image itself is rather detailed. ~ Nathanyel (talk) 14:04, September 1, 2009 (UTC)

Deathwing's Fall

I was looking over the concept map of Deepholm and I noticed an area called "Deathwing's Fall" that led away from "Deathwing's Path". Any idea on what Blizzard has in store for that area?AhotahThunderhorn (talk) 00:20, September 11, 2009 (UTC)

Apparently Deathwing 'fell' into the deepholm after his defeat. I expect that that is where he landed before being brought to the central temple. gadget (talk) 00:32, September 11, 2009 (UTC)

That brings up an interesting question. Was Deathwing still strong enough to drag himself all the way to the temple or did someone or something manage to carry the hulking aspect all the way there?AhotahThunderhorn (talk) 00:53, September 11, 2009 (UTC)

Fanart not fanart?

Image:Neltharion.jpg is seen here at BlizzCon 2009 along with the Shadows & Light and Warcraft II images. Late proof that it was not fanart?--SWM2448 23:04, September 22, 2009 (UTC)

Maybe they bought the rights (if they even need to do that) from the artist, just as they used pieces of fan art for the new Outland loading screen. ~ Nathanyel (talk) 10:31, September 23, 2009 (UTC)

PS: T.J. Verhagen is a real artist, and the image can still be found on the EU fan art page (last page, upper left) ~ Nathanyel (talk) 10:39, September 23, 2009 (UTC)

"Fear of Sargeras"?

There seems to be no evidence that points to Deathwing ever knowing that Sargeras was locked inside Medivh, and since there is no citation it seems to just be speculation (under the Personality section). There is no doubt that he feared and respected Medivh, but the book seemed to make it pretty clear that it was the colossal power Medivh held, not anything else, that worried Deathwing. And to head off something someone might possible say, I do know that Sargeras contributed somewhat to Medivh's great power, but again, no reference to it in the text. Not sure if it's too trivial to bother removing, that the speculation is minor enough to keep, but just thought I would put it out there in case it is something that should actually be fixed. jclipps (talk) 04:27, November 13, 2009 (UTC)

Encounter with Kirin Tor

I have read a few times of Deathwing's encounter with the Kirin Tor mages and how they supposedly bested him and depositing him into the sea. After reading it again, can someone explain to me where/when this happened? I've never read about the event in detail in any of the books, but maybe it's elsewhere and I just missed it? Or is it simply a small addition into Day of the Dragon without any real history? jclipps (talk) 23:31, April 12, 2010 (UTC)

I think Day of the Dragon was giving a vague description to his somewhat vaguely described "death" in Warcraft 2. Later, in the Beyond the Dark Portal novelization, this was retconned/clarified into Khadgar defeating him by magically ripping open some of the plates keeping him contained. -- Dark T Zeratul (talk) 23:53, April 12, 2010 (UTC)

I doubt the encounter with Khadgar was supposed to be the same as the other vague defeat. Maybe it was inspired on that account, but they are widely different events... Khadgar just stopped Deathwing for a while, knowing quite well he was far from defeated. The Kirin Tor account, clearly indicates a confrontation strong enough so that everybody thought Deathwing was dead, and may have even been orchestrated by Deathwing in order to go undercover. I guess that they may be related on Deathwing's "defeat" on Warcraft 2, but they are too different to try to analogate them... And BTW, as far as I know too, the Kirin Tor accound has only been told in Day of the Dragon. --Sega381 (talk) 04:44, April 14, 2010 (UTC)

References

Somebody screwed up the references within the article. I would correct them, but I'm not 100% on how do. So can somebody who is 100% sure on what to do fix the references, please. --Sairez (talk)

What is screwed for you? Did you try to clear your cache?

Loremaster A'noob, Arch Druid of the Noobhoof Clan (^talk/_contribz) 23:01, April 16, 2010 (UTC)

It was, using your words, screwed for me. If by cache you meant history, then yes I recently erased my internet search history...However I didn't have this issue with the other articles I visited. In case anyone is curious these other article were; Thrall, Vol'jin, Vashj'ir, and Mount Hyjal. --Sairez (talk)

Is it over?

I believe the <references group=note> was creating the trouble (for me too)

Loremaster A'noob, Arch Druid of the Noobhoof Clan (^talk/_contribz) 09:23, April 17, 2010 (UTC)

Now it seems like you are supporting that line with contradictory evidence.--SWM2448 18:31, April 17, 2010 (UTC)

A'noob the problem's been solved. It was fixed for me before I first responded to you.

Sandwichman2448, what line is being supported by contradictory evidence? --Sairez (talk)

This edit turned a footnote (which was not originally a footnote) into a note thrown into the citations. Interestingly, in Deathwing's original appearance, his armor was made of "adamantine steel". Now in a very recent magazine preview (page 10), it says that his armor is made of "Adamantium".--SWM2448 03:35, April 18, 2010 (UTC)

Ah. It is possible that Blizzard forgot that Deathwing's armor was forged from adamantine steel.

After all, they did forget that the Eredar were one of the races(along with the nathrezim) that was responsible for Sargeras's fall from grace. --Sairez (talk)

Deathwing in the beta

Enough with the reverting. Deathwing in dragon form can be seen in-game, in the Twilight Highlands, in the beta. Kirkburn  talk  contr 19:51, July 5, 2010 (UTC)

Thank you.Sssssssssssssssssssssssss For Pony! (^Sssss/_Slithered) 20:43, July 5, 2010 (UTC)

Give me a beta key so I can check in person. :rolleyes: --g0urra[T҂C] 21:42, July 5, 2010 (UTC)

*Holds hand out*. =P Sssssssssssssssssssssssss For Pony! (^Sssss/_Slithered) 21:43, July 5, 2010 (UTC)

I can haz one? Pweeze?--SWM2448 00:47, July 6, 2010 (UTC)

I don't have any to give out yet :( Zeal pointed to this recording of the beta server in the edit summary - [1] Kirkburn  talk  contr 10:00, July 6, 2010 (UTC)

You can also find some screenshots on the MMOC forums now. While the user talks about bugging himself under the world to get past the invisible wall that locks out the zone, this isn't actually necessary and there's a non-exploiting way into the zone through an unfinished quest zeplin path that has been present since early alpha. -- Zeal ^(T/C)  20:41, July 6, 2010 (UTC)

Conversation with Alexstrazsa

So, we need a screenshot of the conversation in progress for it to be added (or independent verification). Kirkburn  talk  contr 15:47, July 9, 2010 (UTC)

I agree. And can someone do something about that person who keeps adding the fake conversation? I'm just wondering. DeathGodInATutu (talk) 17:27, July 9, 2010 (UTC)

I've yet to see proof posted of this since it was posted on MMOC – and the person who did shows no interest in providing proof and has posted suspect screenshots and chat logs often –, and it does seem to be suspect. I suggest it remains removed until verified, but i'm 80% sure it's fake given the user's post history of providing fake chats. -- Zeal ^(T/C)  10:21, July 10, 2010 (UTC)

Redaction

The method of legitimate access was removed shortly after i posted -- if not before (I believe the Deathwing and Alexstraza content was present at the time of it though, but i can't be sure) -- and there has been no way of accessing the zone without exploitation since, so all content should be DNP again. Only what can be viewed from outside the zone -- which is still a significant amount tbh -- should be noted. -- Zeal ^(T/C)  09:41, July 28, 2010 (UTC)

Current (end fight) Location

As we all know at this point, Deathwing emerged from Maelstrom (formerly meant to be north of Stormwind... whatevs.) Anyways, he was originally supposed to have his own raid in Grim Batol, but with Blizz already pumping out Cho'gall in half of Grim Batol and Deathwing being sighted in Hyjal and Badlands in Cataclysm (possibly more places I don't know about... yet...), are we sure that his end raid thing is going to be in Grim Batol, and if he isn't, where? Some of us asked the same question with WotLK, but it was kinda obvious Arthas would end up in Icecrown Citadel. What do we have for Deathwing, um... Grim Batol, Firelands (because of Ragnaros), Deepholm... um... surprise plot with Infinite Dragonflight and Old Hyjal? :P I'm pooped, any ideas?

Edit: Just checked the Grim Batol page again, and Cho'gall is apparently already taking the raid half of Grim Batol, which means that unless Deathwing is jumping into the boots of Algalon to become a five-man heroic boss (which I SEVERELY hope doesn't happen), the Aspect of Death is pretty much outta Grim Batol.

—The preceding unsigned comment was added by Feal thas (talk · contr).

Twilight Citadel maybe? Or an instanced version of the tentacle thing in Twilight Highlands?

Loremaster A'noob, Arch Druid of the Noobhoof Clan (^talk/_contribz) 08:11, August 29, 2010 (UTC)

I'd like to mention his assumed lair in Outland. ~ Nathanyel (talk) 11:02, August 29, 2010 (UTC)

Isn't it unlikely that he return again to Outland?

Loremaster A'noob, Arch Druid of the Noobhoof Clan (^talk/_contribz) 11:15, August 29, 2010 (UTC)

Could have many reasons: unfinished/side 'projects' in Outland, revenge on the gronn, forced to retreat there after we demolish the 4.0 raids (Hyjal and Twilight Highlands) while he was not there, etc. For gameplay reasons, they could use that opportunity to reintroduce Outland again, the hypothetical 4.3 patch that brings the Deathwing raid could also bring along Outland quest changes like the 4.0 ones for the classic content. And I still think the Obsidian Sanctum was at least related to Outland. Though exactly this could be also used to contradict me, by speculating that this was indeed Deathwing's lair on Outland, hence we already visited it and he won't use it anymore. ~ Nathanyel (talk) 15:24, August 29, 2010 (UTC)

Stood in the Fire

I just got this achievement today, and ajusted that page and this one after examination of my screenshots.--Mondoblasto (talk) 02:28, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

Lore question regarding Demon Soul

So reading the first section of the article, he went mad because of the Dragon/Demon Soul. That's fine. Except it goes on to say his madness caused him to create the Dragon Soul. Would someone familiar with lore mind providing a clarification on how he got involved with the Old Gods in the first place? Ashan (talk) 00:30, 11 December 2010 (UTC)