Forum:Geography

Forums: Village pump → Warcraft lore → Geography

Just a tad confused. I am well aware that the map of Azeroth, and the Eastern Kingdoms in general have been altered numerous times, with major differences between say, the WC2, WC3 and WoW maps. The reason for these changes have ofcourse been caused by greater development of the various regions lore wise by Blizard, as well as due to pragmatic reasons (largely in the case of WoW) so that the world is viable in its shape for gameplay. However, i question which of these maps may been seen as the most accurate. I have long been inclined to concider the current WoW layout of Azeroth to be our most accurate representation of Azeroth, simply at a very small, condensed scale, but i have heard other argue that the world we see in WoW is not accurate, and infact, simply has its current layout for pragmatic reasons, but i am inclined to think that whatever changes they make to the outlines of the contients in WoW, for whatever reason, should be concidered a true representation of its actual outline from that date onwards. What is the current oppinion on this matter (if this has not been answered elsewere). For example, is Khaz Modan now just as it is, wide as the lands to the south, with Ironforge to the north of Stormwind, or is it still actually long and thin. Is Gilneas the wide stubby country we are to receive, or a long peninsula as it was before? --gadget (talk) 00:17, September 16, 2009 (UTC)

Good questions: I think it's fair to say the current map is the "most accurate" so far, but has various scale and mechanical issues. For example, town sizes, population levels and general habitation is scaled all over the place, and the world was designed without flying in mind (so various mechanical/mapping shortcuts have been taken). However, I think post-Cataclysm, many of the mechanical issues should be dealt with, because they have to. Additionally, there are always going to be concessions for gameplay reasons, and not all areas will be represented equally - islands are missing, and "boring" areas have less detail than interesting ones.

Generally, Azeroth changes to Blizzard's whims and needs- and I think it's fair to say whatever their latest output is, is probably best to take as "most real", unless it's very obviously only in that form for gameplay reasons (e.g. if there were a Warcraft IV, those maps are likely to be designed for gameplay needs, over 'realism'). Kirkburn  talk  contr 12:32, September 16, 2009 (UTC)

I think they made a terrible mistake with Gilneas. Now, where's Kul Tiras going to fit? Just look its current shape: [1]

There's just no room for anything in there, and they're already adding Tol Barad.

In my opinion, they should have made this: [2]

You just remove the nort/west empty areas of Dun Morogh, and there's enough space for it to be still sea.

Here's another map with Gilneas added to Lordaeron: [3]

Why, Blizzard... why.--Lon-ami (talk) 16:24, September 16, 2009 (UTC)

We REALLY don't need to embed 2k x 4k images from other sites. That being said, they could just push Kul Tiras further out to sea. Not like they haven't shifted everything else around since Warcraft 2. -- Dark T Zeratul (talk) 18:41, September 16, 2009 (UTC)

Zomg, pasted links and didn't notice the images would show. My bad .

Anyway, it's not just W2 images, it's WoW's, too: File:LordaeronLoC.JPG

It's stupid to change what's already fine.--Lon-ami (talk) 18:51, September 16, 2009 (UTC)

Personally, I use the old townhall map, mainly because it makes the Deeprun Tram make sense. I use WCIII for Lordaeron's details. Northrend has me baffled. However, if you ask Blizzard, they will likely point you towards the WoW map.--SWM2448 19:41, September 16, 2009 (UTC)

Actually, there is little reason to beleive that Kul Tiras was EVER in Baradin Bay. The Warcraft 2 map simply shows it west of Khaz Modan. Now if we expand the whole region west (as was what occured with Khaz Modan for WoW)we get Kul Tiras to the west of Khaz Modan, but NOT in Baradin Bay. There is no boubt that we would still have Tol Barad in the bay, but they might have to change this because of scale. Still, they seem currently bent on at least trying to fit it into its natural spot. As for Gilneas, remember what they said, Darkshore did not 'work' like they wanted because it was long and thin. They want to avoid that, and this is they joy jem leveling zone. I am fine with the change, because no area ever keeps its exact outline when we stick it into WoW, and generally it makes the regions more complex. The only reason to beleive that Kul Tiras is in the bay was the guide map that came with the game, but it horribly distorts everything. As to the old town hall map, there are still obvious issues. The one that comes to mind first is that Lordamere Lake is just way too big. We are told that Darrowmere Lake is supposed to be the largest lake in the Eastern Kingdoms. Although it still isn't in WoW, it still shows that that map cannot be seen as absolutly correct. Its a tough issue which maps to trust!

gadget (talk) 20:21, September 16, 2009 (UTC)

We need some gnomes and goblins to use their rockets to launch an Azeroth surveyor satellite! Most likely Brann Bronzebeard made most of the maps and has some sort of visual impairment that distorts the relative size and shape of geographical features. I blame Brann. --Beware the sneaky smile! Fandyllic (talk · contr) 12:29 AM PST 17 Sep 2009

Indeed :P. On a side note, whenever we HAVE gotten a space view of Azeroth (at various times, usually in high end instances) the continents are WoW shaped. To me this says we may actually have a quite accurate map of things ingame, just distiled. E.g. Khaz Modan just isn't thin, in any in game view. gadget (talk) 01:17, September 17, 2009 (UTC)

Brann got to the Titans too. Don't be fooled. --Beware the sneaky smile! Fandyllic (talk · contr) 4:47 AM PST 17 Sep 2009

That Blizzard argument is just stupid. If they don't want players running a long distance... add transports, dammmit!! add a small transport ship, a teleporter... changing the zone is the worst option. It seems they have done that with Gilneas, and see it now, it just sucks. If they don't wanted players to run across the entire peninsula, they should have searched better solutions than laughing at the maps.--Lon-ami (talk) 16:04, September 17, 2009 (UTC)

I guess you also got pissed when they turned the Borean Tundra from a long thin peninsula expanding far to the west into a stubby knob, but thats just how it works. No zone, and i mean none, are shapped exactly the way they were in earlier games now that we are in WoW. It seems that before a zone enters the game is is really just a placeholder. Its true shape is reveiled when it comes ingame. The question really is weather the placeholder outlines we have seen before they enter the game, and the maps from before WoW are Cannon, or weather the shapes we see in WoW are. I am inclined to think the latter. gadget (talk) 02:05, September 18, 2009 (UTC)

Yeah, Borean Tundra annoyed me pretty much, but at least, it's still a big zone, and we could speculate part of that peninsula was ice or something.

But with Gilneas, there's no excuse.

Seriously, if I were Blizzard, I would show a map with Kul Tiras well placed so we can make an idea of how the world works now.--Lon-ami (talk) 09:27, September 18, 2009 (UTC)

Yea... i doubt they will show Kul'Tiras until implimentation unfortunatly. At least we get Tol'Barad, which from Lore is a part of that Kingdom since it was annexed from Stromgarde. I hope we see some Kul Tiran settlemnents, or possibly some remenant of the pre-second war population of the island. Yea, Geography is suprisingly fluid in this world. gadget (talk) 10:51, September 18, 2009 (UTC)

I have also been quite worried about the status of the great Kul Tiras since Blizz anounced Cataclysm. Surely it has to be included if they are to make the whole world available? Hmmm i remember hearing something about the Naga taking over the place, maybe Blizz will look at it more once we've dealt with Deathwing and move onto Azshara... Max Krist (talk) 23:38, September 18, 2009 (UTC)

Seeing as Horde and Alliance are becoming foes again, it might be that Bolerus becomes an alliance city for easy access to the Maelstrom, perhapse with a horde city acting the same... gadget (talk) 23:51, September 18, 2009 (UTC)

I think Kul iras will appear with the Great/South Sea expansion, after Cataclysm and Emerald Dream. It's perfect for a new race capital, but seeing how they're changing that, they could use it as something else. Or just a pvp oriented capital. I see it something like this (all pure speculation):

• Cataclysm:
  • Alliance race: Worgen, district at Stormwind
  • Horde race: Goblins, district at Orgrimmar
• Unnamed:
  • Alliance race: Naga, district at Ironforge
  • Horde race: Apexis arakkoa, district at Thunder Bluff
  • Alliance capital: Boralus (naga) (plus Deeprun Tram ftw)
  • Horde capital: Undermine (goblin)

Of course, those 2 races I've decided could be changed for any other. The result would be the same. Also, for the neutral capital of the Great Sea, I would take Zuldazar.--Lon-ami (talk) 15:30, September 19, 2009 (UTC)

Anyway, Kul Tiras should, at least, have NPCs around, at Stormwind, in an embassy or something. Gilneas had a excuse for being that selfish and apart from the world, but Kul Tiras is supposed to be active inside the Alliance.--Lon-ami (talk) 15:35, September 19, 2009 (UTC)

Well they do have forces in Durotar. gadget (talk) 21:31, September 19, 2009 (UTC)

If you call that "forces"... They're a nation, not a band of pirates, for god's sake.--Lon-ami (talk) 10:57, September 20, 2009 (UTC)

As far as those men are concerned they are carrying on the war against the horde that their past king began :P. Tad late really, though Tol Barad also belongs to Kul Tiras, so bit by bit we are getting more of their territorym if not their core. gadget (talk) 11:47, September 20, 2009 (UTC)

I reckon the World of Warcraft map aint the real thing, Blizzard has a habit of retcons. A habit so big that I even predicted the resurrection of Muradin Bronzebeard. Now I can't wait till they make Uther one of Gul'Dan's rejected Death Knights who were made before he decided to strip there flesh. Because of his undead state he lacks great passion (If we allow our passions to turn into bloodlust we will be as vile as the orcs) --The last Alterac (talk) 08:28, January 6, 2010 (UTC)